Another LIB Rant

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Collin, Jun 5, 2014.

  1. salembeats


    Possibly, but tankers can redeploy safely, just the same.
  2. a-koo-chee-moya

    Doesn't taking damage cancel redeploying?
  3. Qaz

    Fair point, but it's not really that relevant as you can simply look at other metrics to determine efficacy.

    Alarox made this (shredder vs vanguard ap) :
    [IMG]

    KPH, vKPH and overall kills paint a pretty clear picture, imo. Amusingly, it also seems like all lib weapons do outperform the specialised weapons on tanks in their niches (meaning that shredder/dalton/zepher vkph and kphs are higher than KPHs of HE cannons and vKPH of ap cannons), at least in the top-10.
    • Up x 6
  4. Kumaro

    Ignore surrounding battle and focus only on the infantry kills in front. - gets stomped by other elements partaking the battle = deal with it. It's your own fault.

    Returning to position of last death to continue tempting the same thing as before. Again ending up getting killed by the same or a similar elements as before - deal with it. It's your own fault.

    Still not learning your lesson and continues to refuse to learn and adapt in an FPS combined arms game. = be quiet and accept your fate as a part of the bottom of the food chain. Meat for the meatgrinder will be treated as such. NO EXCEPTIONS!!!
    _______________________________
    Now then
    Approaching the forum with several clever scenarios that has proved non successful including solo tactics and team tactics.
    Put forward in a proper manner that does not seem like a L2P noob whine by conformist casual gamers.....Well now we will listen instead of treating you like the mad guy screaming about the end of the world down the street.

    The Liberators strength comes from the pilots and gunners ability to take advantage of the ground targets inability to work together to counter it. It is not the issue of the Liberator being to strong. It is the issue of the players on the receiving end being incapable of working as a team.

    Can't someone make a video or something teaching people what to do and give some tips and tricks how to deal with them??
    or make a thread where you share your tactics?? O_O i mean it's a multiplayer game which means community. Share some information with each other!!!!
  5. Flag

    Other vehicles are far from useless.
  6. Dreadnaut

    Those stats aren't accurate with the 1 death. Geez, learn to figure out how to read stats.
    • Up x 1
  7. a-koo-chee-moya

    Most vehicles are useless outside open field battles. Just be smart an keep indoors.
  8. Dreadnaut

    Oh my bad, the highest kills Dalton gunner in PS2 is 7.53:1, not 5. My apologies.

    Average the top 10 users, removing the highest and lowest, average of 17.93:1

    Best in the Prowler:
    Prowler AP: 40:1
    Prowler HE: 84:1
    Prowler HEAT: 60:1

    Do you guys really think anyone has humiliated me now? Sorting by KDR is useless as the API doesn't work that way. Lots of people are only showing 1 single death (not accurate)

    Use the Top Ten by kills, and average their results.

    I don't care enough to average the top 10 Prowler, Magrider, and Vanguard users KDR. The KDR is massively higher in the tank realm than anyone in a Liberator could possibly do.

    Even if you added the KDR of me, and my best two gunners, we'd be at 1/10 of the single best Prowler drivers in terms of killing ability.
    • Up x 3
  9. Dreadnaut

    It's COMPLETELY misleading to sort by KDR.

    Sort by kills and average the usage across the top 10 users, dropping the highest and lowest KDR.
    • Up x 2
  10. odie361

    I just want to see more realistic damage, name one plane that can take MBT round and still stay airborne. A real 20mm cannon rips apart fighters with just few rounds. One SAM is a dead sentence to almost any aricraft. just my .02
  11. Qaz

    Let's assume you have a squad of six players. In one scenario, those players like being in the air. They can grab six ESF or 2 (3/3) or 3 (2/3) libs. They're going to be extremely lethal and effective at a shocking number of tasks, assuming they don't fly directly into the enemy zerg's AA positions. In the next scenario, those players like being in tanks. They can spawn six skyguards and mess air up (and have a horrible time), they can spawn 3 tanks and do what they like for a little while before getting ganked by libs, or they can spawn 1 tank, 1 ammo sundy, and 2 skyguards. The last option is the only option that will allow that group to operate apart from the zerg without getting ganked for a while.

    So, group A gets to do what it wants and it's also super-effective. Group B doesn't get to do what it wants and needs way more players to be effective. Also, coordination leads to devastating effectiveness for Group A, while it's the minimum requirement for Group B to even be able to operate.

    So, yay ... teamwork?
    • Up x 6
  12. Flag

    Say what?
    You can't be serious.
    • Up x 3
  13. Kylerr

    1st of all, AP on the vanguard is one of the worst vehicle mounted anti infantry weapons in the game (at least among MBTs). If you pay attention to vehicle kills they are relatively on-par with eachother. You also have to take into consideration the amount of kills the vanguard gunner is getting (probably almost as many kills or more). Either way you can't just take raw data like that from two completely different weapons without taking into consideration the other circumstances. And I'm saying this as someone who thinks the shredder is a little unbalanced.
    • Up x 1
  14. umbrellapower

    Man, these Liberator guys are getting pretty desperate. Yes, we see that you have a huge ego from your ability to abuse a broken vehicle. No, Libs are not going to stay the way they are, so don't get too comfortable in your farming chariots.

    If the idea of a Lib nerf scares you, don't worry. There are plenty of other crutches to rely on, such as MAXes or HE tonks. Have fun!
    • Up x 2
  15. Dreadnaut

    Not going to argue as you have a very valid point.

    People say that AA isn't effective and they are wrong, dead wrong. AA scales far better than aircraft do and AA has the upper hand.
    • Skyguard Lightning
    • Sunderer
    • Burster Max
    • G2A Lockon Missiles
    • MBT Primary (except Magriders, they suck)
    • MBT Secondary
    • AA Turrets

    The issue is, ground AA isn't FUN for most people. That's where people get confused...they scream, "BUT I DON"T WANT TO BE IN A SKYGUARD ITS BORING!!!" Ok, valid point, but to say it isn't effective is flat out wrong.

    3 guys in Skyguards will RUIN 3 guys in a single Liberator. AA has the advantage for the most part.


    There's also the airborne AA:
    • ESF Primary
    • ESF Secondary
    • Lib Tank Buster
    • Lib Secondaries (Shredder, Dalton, etc)
    • Battle Galaxy (Semi effective)

    These are a lot more fun for most people, but much more difficult to use to be effective in smaller numbers.


    So, boils down to this. Anti-Air isn't bad, it's just boring. Why is it boring? Most people think it's boring cuz you don't get many kills, just lots of assists. Well you get points for assists now so it isn't as bad as it was.
  16. Dreadnaut

    Says the guy with under 2 hours in the Liberator on his main account...come on now :)

    You're primarily infantry, and good at it from the looks of things so you should know better than to make silly comments like the one above.

    Talk to any competent Lib pilot and he'll tell you pretty much this:

    Liberator Nerfs:
    • Shredder is OP vs Maxes
    • Belly guns, in general, carry 2x more ammo than they should
    • Comp Armor is too powerful against MBT Main gun rounds

    Liberator Buffs:
    • Tank Buster needs to kill a Phalanx Turret with 42 rounds (44 is max mag)
    • Comp Armor should have more resists against Flak (including flak changes to make it better)
    • Flares by default like the ESF

    Game Fixes: (Related to Aircraft)
    • Flak needs to have tighter CoF
    • Dmg increased from 0-50m, dropoff to 100m
    • Added gravity

    No Lib pilot worth a damn (Rak, ForlornHope, Kylerr, Krunk, and many others) wants the Lib to be OP. Good Lib pilots and gunners want to be known for their high level of flying skill. Trash Lib pilots will say all kinds of stupid things about the Liberator that are just ridiculous and don't promote game balance. Ignore those idiots, they don't represent the rest of us that excel at flying and want nothing more than balanced gameplay.
    • Up x 2
  17. Flag

    You missed the point.
    Why is the shredder allowed to be versatile, yet as good at AV as the TitanAP?
    • Up x 5
  18. Kylerr

    And you missed my point. My point was that you should consider all of the variables before looking at raw stats from two completely different guns. Vanguard can be "anti-everything" too - just throw an AI gun on the top.
    Although I do agree the shredder is a little too versatile (the dalton and zephyr are in the perfect spot except against other libs). The only change that should be made to the shredder imo is it's damage against MAXes needs to be reduced, which would indirectly make it less good at farming infantry as well.

    This x10000000000. Could not have said it better myself.
  19. Qaz

    I actually looked at mag/van AP and HE before making that statement. The Lib guns are better at AI than the HE guns (measured by KPH) while also being better at killing vehicles (same/higher vKPH--it's important to look at this and not absolute numbers). As for secondaries ... we can also add the TB and bulldogs. Anyway, this wasn't really a balance statement either way, as you can't determine something like that by looking at the top positions on the leaderboards.

    I think it's boring because of how it works. You're sitting on the ground and wait for stuff to come to you. Then you fire on it for 30 seconds and get an assist. It's simply not interesting to do, unless you're after making certs. It's static and not skill-intensive. I don't think this is something that can be changed--only very few people will ever like doing AA actively.

    Also, you're right in that AA scales well. Problem is, the inverse is true too. As long as you don't have a critical mass, all you can do is deter aircraft. This is particularly relevant for the case I described above.

    I think most of the stuff you mentioned regarding potential nerfs and buffs is reasonable. I have a few more suggestions:

    Revert the nerf to daltons vs Libs (intends to increase lib v lib hunting and promote dalton usage)
    Revert the change to composite vs MBT AP rounds
    Increase the noise profile of libs

    Modify skyguards so that they are extremely lethal against libs if they are at a range of 100m or less (as in, 1 skyguard can kill it reasonably fast). This is specifically intended to allow ground crews to use skyguards to effectively deter libs from tankbusting/instaganking them. I don't see how any other option would work here. Beyond 100m, the damage should fall off significantly and rapidly.

    Nerf the shredder. It's WAY too effective at everything. It should not be an exceptional weapon vs air, infantry and tanks. Pick one and then nerf it against other targets.The nerfs can be reasonable, but they do need to happen, imo.

    Revert the Deci nerf--2 direct hits should kill a non-comp lib. Landing two hits should be rewarded.

    --
    I think most of these are fair and would improve the current balance in basically all aspects.
    • Up x 3
  20. Alarox

    Except I explicitly remember complaints about tanks shooting down Liberators.
    • Up x 2