Resources, Timers, and what I see.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Johnthefighter, May 29, 2014.

  1. Johnthefighter

    This is my first and probably only thread on these forums. I wanted to come in here now and say my piece about a game I have had hours of fun in and see great potential in. I will start by saying that I make these observations and critiques as I leveled my characters and spent time in this game so it is more as a leveling character then a high battle rank one.

    I have seen many posts throughout my time discussing why this game is unfriendly to new players, why it is P2W, and why things should be as currently termed "nerfed". It is my suggestion that in truth the largest problem with new players and even older time players in this game is not many of the mechanics themselves rather the curious punishment that exists for any sort of mistake. What I refer to in my mind and experience is the re-spawn timers that are in place.

    Please allow me to explain, as a new player (when I was or rolled a completely new character) you begin Planetside 2 with full resources a huge map and basic understanding of controls. As I will state my time in gaming was long but not all the way back to "Doom" as some people use and this game is a shooter in that it controls in the same way. With the resource system in place there is already a cap on vehicle spawns and usage of certain explosives. Part (not all) of the reason that biolab grinds have become the place to be is because they are easy fights that you do not need to cert into much to be a part of. It was that way with the old crown and the cries to change that just moved the fight to a new spot not, but I am getting a little away from my point.

    I have heard people cry that AA is killing their air too easily or that tank mines and c4 is destroying tank battles. While this occurs I think that people feel these things doubly so because of the re-spawn timers. For a new player they pull a tank that is not "certed" into and start driving only to be killed by a mine that they did not see. While this sucks and they sigh the irritation comes from the fact that they must now wait for another chance to try again. An arbitrary timer that must be "certed" into to reduce it. This timer means that you must chose to place "certs" into this to simply be able to use the tank or aircraft so you can learn how to use it in a combat environment. This artificially increases the time it takes not only to learn these vehicles but also to cert them to a level that they are able to even stand on their own. This means that even after 30 some levels if you have certed into a tank, now trying out aircraft means starting again. This increases all frustration with this game, even at the minimum 2 minutes timer getting killed in a battle increases the irritation if you recently pulled it. For example I have recently even pulled a tank and instantly blew up from mines left there from a battle an hour ago, which (once the anger at myself for not looking passes) makes the timer ridiculous. Making a player wait simply for the sake of waiting means that the player in this case someone looking just for a couple of quick hours of fun contemplate what else they can be doing.

    On the other side I see and understand that "vehicle spam" is an issue this is why the resource system should come into play. Resources mean that if I loose the first tank or aircraft to something stupid on my part at least I get a second chance to learn and not do that again without an extra punishment. However it restricts me to fighting to keep my resources going and just better management. This is part (not all but part) of the reason biolab fights on indar are so prevalent (especially on waterson where I play now). The resources you use in a biolab fight are restored in the lab itself for every point you get. Sine the max is the only thing that can be "pulled" its respawn timer is the only real restriction here as well. However new players will not see the max as too much of a game killer and since c4 rockets and even bullets are good counters to it even alone the barrier here is far less then elsewhere.

    In conclusion I truly believe that respawn timers should be removed, even for the "loathed" paying members so that the resource boosts are even relevant. I know that it may be difficult to program or even get the balance right for a bit but removing respawn timers on vehicles will allow new players to learn these vehicles and use their certs towards them in a smart manner. To combat vehicle "spam" resources should be the sole tool used. It would even have the added benefit perhaps of making it worth more to fight at a tech plant or amp station if you wish to increase your vehicle spawn ability. Perhaps it is too late to do it now for this game on PC, and perhaps I will not even reach the ears I need to with this. However it is my hope even that going forward for a new game or maybe for this one that it can have a serious look. I truly believe from my experience with the game that leveling this playing field will reduce the noob penalty for learning the game and give the game the chance to maintain population long enough to see the future developments.

    tl;dr I believe that respawn timers on vehicles should be removed, and the resource system be used to control the spawn of vehicles and numbers. Allowing for both new and old players to learn and have a way to counteract stupid mistakes. Before the resource revamp happens (since that is a longer term thing) this needs to be revisited.
    • Up x 3
  2. Tommyp2006

    Agreed, I can't wait for them to remove aquisition timers. Not just because it will help new players be able to use vehicles more often, not just because timers suck, but because I can't wait for them to refund the certs for them. I'll be getting about 12,000 certs back. That's just over 8% of all the certs I have ever earned, that I had to dump into acquisition timers just to have them useable at a reasonable rate.
    • Up x 3
  3. quatin

    I agree that timers and resource limits are redundant. One of them should be removed. However, I don't think the current system limits vehicles nearly enough. If you avoid wasting too many resources early on buying infantry guns, you can quickly get most vehicles to be serviceable.

    Stock Lightning, MBT and MAXs are all servicable without any cert investment.

    ESFs need 150 certs for Flares & NAR. Liberators might need 150 certs for NAR and Bulldog.

    You can continually cycle through vehicles all day if you don't fixate on just playing one specific vehicle.
  4. Morchai

    I agree that we don't need the respawn timers, but they are already being removed with the resource revamp so they aren't really an issue. Still, I don't like the plans for the resource revamp. Being unable to get your resources back to full while in a vehicle will be problematic and cause downtime. The way it's looking, I probably won't be playing long after the revamp.

    No tank, no play.
  5. Johnthefighter

    While I agree with the points made, one of my biggest issues here is what it is doing for new players. The fact that they have to cert into the respawn timer costs them those hard earn certs just to keep up. With there being so many long term players now that have mastered certain things they quickly remove a new tanker or esf player from the field before he/she has a chance to learn.

    Also while the resource revamp may solve this issue it is my concern that it will for a full overhaul take too long to finish. That the loss of population now is the issue that must be addressed.
  6. quatin


    I have a basic build in the Max, Lightning, MBT, Liberator and ESF. I've only invested 11 certs at most into the first 2 ranks of the respawn timer and only for the Liberator and Lightning. I can endlessly cycle through vehicles with this setup and barely play infantry. If anything, resources limit me more than the timers.

    The timer is a non-issue even for newbies, unless you only want to play one specific vehicle all the time, which shouldn't be allowed anyways. You can't constantly be in a tank for 100% of your game time. I think the fact that I can constantly cycle through vehicles is already too much.
  7. Morchai

    Why not? No, really ... why not? You can be a light assault 100% of the time if you want, so why not a tanker?

    Fact is, I do stay in a lightning during most of my play time. I have an alt in each empire, they all drive lightnings and at least one of them will have access to the resources needed to keep me in one. You cycle between air and land vehicles, I cycle between empires, timers and resource pools. But, I shouldn't have to.

    Not only do I think we should be able to stick to a role, but I think we should be able to specialize even more. I'd gladly give up my ability to pull air all together, for example, for greater access to land vehicles by converting my air resource into increased mechanized resources.
  8. quatin


    Maybe I should've elaborated more.

    Vehicles are a force multiplier, so it's an imbalance if a player can be in a vehicle 100% of the time. At least right now you're forced to alternate between ground and air. It's no longer combined arms if everyone drives tanks and planes around all the time. Vehicles are spammed too much already.

    Your situation of hopping servers doesn't cause an imbalance, because when you're logged out resources don't accumulate. Sooner or later you will be forced to play infantry or air.
  9. z1967

    I am so glad that they are removing times in the resource revamp. I think I will be a few thousand certs richer from that. Which means more certs for the always fun battle flash :D
  10. LibertyRevolution


    Because vehicles are supposed to be a limited use force multiplier and are not meant to be a full-time playstyle..
    Do I need to go dig up that quote off of reddit?

    This is an MMOFPS, not world of tanks bro.
  11. Morchai

    Resources don't but timers tick down. I don't jump between servers, I jump between alts on the same server. One empire or another is always going to control enough territory on at least one continent to generate the income necessary to keep me in a tank. The worst case scenario is having to go to a controlled continent and wait for a resource pulse before heading back to where ever the action is (usually Indar) and pulling the tank, and that's only if I have a run of bad luck.

    I don't play infantry. If ever the game forces me into that role, I'll walk away from it. You won't miss me, but there will be one less target out there for you to shoot at. Players are the content.
  12. kirinohana

    I agree that timers and resources are a bit redundant. They seem to push towards you loading out two vehicles which may be the point (cert sink). I to would like a resource revamp, but in all honesty am a bit scared what they actually end up doing with though.
  13. Aractain

    The timer is hurting the game. It punishes new/bad players but it doesn't hurt good/team work players in any real way. This has the net effect of "chilling" the game. The 'targets' disappear really quick since they can't replace their stuff meaning it ends up being top tier team vs top tier team - the absolute worst scenario for a F2P pvp game based around unorganized teamwork. You need population for the game systems to work or your casual players get forced out and the game shuts down.

    They are planning on addressing this with the whole resource revamp but that is probably a mid 2015 thing. They just need to switch off or lower timers to 1 minuet.

    As for those against the idea, why? If your bad enough to be stopped by the timer (outside of crashes/lag etc) your not going to make much impact with a vehicle anyway. In fact by having non-MLGPro420BlazeIt players bring out more stuff you get to kill them for more fun and XP and importantly the less skilled players have targets they might be able to actually kill and get some XP.
  14. FigM

    spawn timer only hurts new players, 6+ month players are mostly limited by resource supply.
    There have been several nerfs to resource acquisition, the increase in vehicle cost without raising the resource cap (750 is too little when things cost 300~)
    And then the stealth nerf with different continent timers, now they are in sync so you can't jump from one to another to get extra resources.

    People who are trying to enjoy the vehicle aspect of the game are continuously punished and demonized. Infantry gameplay in this game is just too primitive and uncompetitive. Vehicles are the only thing keeping this game interesting
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  15. FieldMarshall

    The current system really destroys the experience for any new people wanting to get into vehicles and air.

    After a long grind for resources and some poor newbie pulls his first vehicle, its likely to blow up at the first encounter with any sort of AV,
    while they franticly try to find the best way to 180 flee from whatever is shooting.
    Sooner if there is a liberator nearby. Then wait for the timer etc.

    Even worse if they, god forbid, should try out any sort of aircraft. Roll over and die as soon as it spawns. And wait for the timer.

    I dont think everyone should just zerg vehicles with no consequences (vehicle zerging happens anyway). So, maybe come up with an alternative to the current system.
    The learning curve for newer players seems really extreme.
    • Up x 1
  16. Johnthefighter

    See I think that people have understood my points pretty well. I too can as a high battle rank player keep rotating out vehicles no problem. However it is when I role a new character I realize that this barrier to entry of the game is one that dead stops people. When one wishes to learn how to play something the best thing to do is practice in a live scenario. Since flying is the easiest to talk about I will go there. If you pull a brand new scythe for example and you start to fly "after practicing in the vr" most likely you will get to a battle and attempt to use your main gun only to be quickly blown out of the sky. This sucks but is understandable you are new it happens so it take some time. Then you go to see if you can pull another one and try again, you see that you have a 10+ minute timer on it. Now you have to do something else, then when the timer ends you go back and this time you get blown out of the sky by a veteran pilot, which honestly you have no chance against. Again another 10+ minute timer. So you can put some certs into trying to get a better scythe to even the fight a bit or the timer so you can at least have the ability to learn it.

    It is not for veteran players that I say this, but I challenge any veteran player to roll a new character completely and tell me that the timers do not suck. Also as has been said the timers do not bother veteran players or those that have had enough certs to lower them, so this is only a punishment and restriction for new players. I am not concerned that a bunch of BR 10's will just keep pulling scythe's or reavers or mossies because that just usually means more kills and practice for me. It is this barrier to use that will cause the player base not to see any growth and replace the veterans that move on. This in a game where population matters so largely is not a good thing. My proposal is that ahead of the resource revamp that may take time to complete that these timers be removed for new players to give them the chance to learn. That the resource system be used as the "vehicle spam" control.
  17. MrJengles

    Resource revamp is so desperately needed. I've slowly got more and more tired of the mass force multipliers and mass infantry redeploy nonsense and don't play much now.

    That said, I agree, removing the vehicle acquisition timers early would be a huge benefit to new players in the meantime. Downsides would be minimal given the current state.

    Remove acquisition timers ASAP!