When will Mossy and Reaver get adjusted to get on the same level as Scythe?

Sorry, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole is what comes to mind when I read your post(s) here.

In a 1v1 dogfight yes. The Scythe has the advantage. However, live is all about getting the jump and manipulating the situation to your advantage.

In addition there's a lot more group fighting going on and the Scythe is easily the worst at group fighting.
So, if you're able to dictate the terms of most of your fights and keep your enemy at a distance then the Scythe is definitely a good choice for you. It's just all about how you play, your style probably just fits better with how the Scythe plays/flys xD

The scythe is a giant target for any fight that actually matters.

If you're thinking about flak and lock-ons, the size of the ESF doesn't matter.
Flak detonats before it even hits the craft, and lock-ons just trace some spot inside the craft that's been decided to be the center of the model.

Do you know that when a Reaver enters hover flight, it increases the frontal and rear hitbox while decreasing its top and bottom hitbox (counter intuative in a hover dogfight unless you are showing bad angles); and when it is in forward flight it decreases its frontal and rear hitbox and increases its top and bottom hitbox (great for running away at the proper angles, bad at all other times like getting jumped or getting chased by a higher altitude pilot).

Also I heard a lot about how the Scythe has the largest top and bottom hitbox; this is incorrect. Sure it may look like a massive pancake, but only flak will take advantage of this. When you actually take a look at the pixel size, the Reaver has a larger hitbox then the Scythe (at all angles), and only slightly larger then the mossy LINK. Top angles and bottom angle sizes of hitboxes are so similar it is not even funny, with only mass distribution being the major difference. *sidenote - due to the aforementioned increase of top and bottom Reaver hitbox in flight mode, it becomes an even larger target* *also - the Scythe is the only ESF without visible moving mechanical parts*

Do your research before you spout off non-sense or make bogus claims that can be easily refuted. Yes, opinions are just that: opinions; but when you start trying to defend your viewpoints with absolutely false claims or biased information not taking into account statistics, graphs, or hard evidence, it doesn't do anything more then show everyone you have an agenda and are trying to prove it.

Mossie is the best overall ESF due to its small size and faster speed along with a high ROF. They are all fairly well balanced. If anything the scythe could use a slight speed buff but otherwise ESF vs ESF is about as balanced as you can get. The three are practically copies of each other w/ very minute differences.

how on earth is rof an advantage? DPS is what matters, and the scythe and mossie are pretty much dead even. Also I've done the math, the scythe has a slightly less overall hitbox

a hitbox full of holes I might add.

ROF = more DPS
So you've done the math? Care to prove it because the mossie has the smallest all round hitbox and the scythe has a good front, but has a bullet/flak magnet bottom.

Only if the bullets do the same amount of damage. They don't.

I don't think you know what dps is, dps is the amount of damage it can output per second. The mossie has higher rof but lower damage to even out. Let's say a weapon does 500 damage, and fires at 400 rpm, so it does (500 * 400)=200,000 damage a minute(not factoring reload obviously). Now divide that by 60(for the number of seconds in a minute) and you get 333.33dps. Now if you had a weapon that had 1 million rpm but only .001 damage per bullet it's not going to have great dps just because rof.

I'll quote an old post I made using the pictures others have made

The more bullets you throw out the more damage you do.

would you mind reading my post first before you respond?

A GD7F will kill you faster than a God Saw.

Do you even math? Like... at all?

we'll make the numbers really simply.

Let's say the mossie fires at 100rpm and does 100 damage per shot. That means it does.
100*100 = 10,000 damage per minute

Now, let's say that the Reaver fires at 75rpm and does 150 damage rper shot. That means it does.
75*150 = 11,250 damage per minute

DPS is reliant upon fire rate and individual bullet damage and if you honestly still don't understand that then whatever country you live in needs to take a look at how they do education.

he doesn't read your post, don't bother, he needs to work on reading and math, kinda sad considering it's 2014

When you inflate the side profile by ~5.8x to ~8.5x of the actual pixel values with edge radii, yes you will skew the values to reasonable averages due to number inflation: i.e. 3 numbers with ~10k vaules each average out to ~ 30k, and when you swap one with a value on a scale of 8x larger then the other two, the differences caused by the smaller numbers are devalued. ( one~100k vs two ~10k values )

Therefore the side scales create a heavy bias that can only be seen as a misrepresentation of facts in a picture format with unreliable results. (To the untrained eye, these can be seen as solid fact because of a nice visual presentation format)

When you remove that frame and add in actual Pixels for side profiles, here's the maths as done before (based on my previous references): Mosquito side px ~24.6k Reaver side px ~ 26.5k Scythe side px ~ 15.9k *remember approx. values should be scaled to give minimal skew to end results when completed* *assuming your numbers also are pixel vaules* ( all computations done to the ~to the 0.1k pixel to save time)

Using your base values: Upon further investigation I could not properly use your values due to not knowing scales or actual units used (Values were not indicating proper units). Even though I came up with ~92% to your 95.8% and ~119% compared to your 105.88%, those values cannot be relied on by any means and should be discarded.

Here's using my base values (in all pixels @ 25 m): Sums = Mosqutio ~90.6k Reaver ~100.2k Scythe ~81.8k

In your words:
"so taking the mossie as the median, the scythe is 90.3% of the mossie, and the reaver is 110.6% of the mosquito"

and -- Reaver has 122.5% area of a Scythe - or - Scythe has 81.6% the area of a Reaver --
(in hindsight, using your values *in my calculations* were similar but still unreliable in nature)

(I will ignore the topic of movable wings and thrusters on the mosquito and reaver that are in differing positions affecting values)

Each computation is on the same SCALE, no added calculations or biasing methods are added into them. It is an actual calculation of all angles vs. pixel number. I highly advise not using material to make computations that mess with the end result to obtain a certain confirmation bias, but to stay objective. Sources: Here and Here (all done at ~25 m scale)

When adding rear profiles also here are the values (which adds another variable to smooth the average):

Using my base values: Sums = Mosqutio ~112.5k Reaver ~128.2 Scythe ~91.8k

Scythe is 81.6% of the Moquito -or- Moquito is 122.6% of the Scythe
Mosquito is 87.8% of the Reaver -or- Reaver is 114.0% of the Moquito
Scythe is 71.6% of the Reaver -or Reaver is 139.7% of the Scythe

If infinite views of all three ESFs were used at the same distance and angle at each snapshot from center of mass, summed in pixels, then compared; this would be the most reliable and and accurate way of determining average hitbox ratios. Since we can't or are not devoted enough to invest that much time or effort into this, we approximate using these methods. The more angle calculations, the more accurate the findings.

Also, if as more random, non-biased angles were added to the calculation, and the size varied more; one would expect larger hitbox differences. If the size held stable or decreased in percent differences, one would expect smaller hitbox differences.

**This was not directed as a personal attack at quoted individuals calculations, only clarification for future reference.

I would say you are wrong, but since that is your impression you can keep it.

Oh, not really. I am a reaver pilot and i like it a lot - everything you said is true. But the real challange is dogfighting good pilots, not mass combats because they are not so much based on individual skill and they have a lot to do with luck. If the other squad targets you first you are dead. I guess in the end it is the old and still ongoing discussion about individual skill and this game being an MMO. But tbh: i heard that MMO-argument quite a lot to refute complaints about imbalances and it is pretty much annoying me nowadays. Especially because going for objectives is really broken in PS2. Making your own meta game is a strong tendency amongst all good players.

It's funny you mention that considering a vast majority of the top pilots I talk to (at least the American ones) still believe the Reaver to be the best overall ESF. Also, a ton of the better pilots, including myself, told MattiAce numerous times how idiotic it was to try and use 1v1 duels as evidence of imbalance in a MMO. 1v1 pass-and-turn duels do not replicate actual gameplay on the servers.

Again, the Scythe's advantages do not translate well at all once numbers are factored into the equation. Niether the Mossy nor the Reaver suffer that same problem.