Give the Magrider "no bullet drop". It's a Vanu trait....Right?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by LIKE A BOSS!, May 22, 2014.

  1. TheBlazing


    You may not have a problem with it, but it appears from these forums that a lot of other players would like having their faction traits fully applied, at least on their faction-specific vehicles. If there is one type of thread that meets general agreement with minimal concerns, it is the "moar ES stuff/make x thing ES" type of thread.

    And even then, if you have no problem with weapons not complying to faction traits, I guess that you have no problem with weapons being more ES, right?
  2. Nody

    Correction; we're the faction with a faction trait that never matters (in the few cases it actually had an actual impact it got nerfed). That leaves VS with "the faction with no unique weapons (excl. Lasher)" of mediocre damage, range and rof. Personally I'd settle for an AP mode to the infantry guns (like in PS1) as alt fire that deals increased AV damage / lower AI damage to be used against MAX/Vehicles. We're shooting lazors/plasma so we can change this on the go which NC/TR's cruder weapons can not (flexibility in line with our background of science); voila faction trait that's actually unique and don't step on the toes of NC or TR's traits.
  3. Alarox

    You, for some reason, seem to think I'm not of the same mindset as most of the community regarding faction traits.

    My point was very narrowed and simple. I think the idea that every single weapon of every single faction has to be based on "traits" is pointless and silly.
  4. Divinorium

    Give them no bullet drop, at the cost of it doing less damage as distance pass.(200 meters = 50% of damage)

    It's a LAZER!1! weapon right?
  5. Alarox

    No-drop: Lasher, Lancer, PPA, Vortex, Comets, nearly every infantry weapon, two unique sniper rifles. The trait is extremely powerful for these.

    The reason they're not applied to things like your Magrider's main cannons or BASRs, or battle rifles, is that in these situations they would become relatively overpowered. Either because the design idea itself is too strong, or because it is a straight upgrade on the other factions while everything else is identical.

    Your other faction trait is mobility/agility. ZOE, pre-nerf, exemplified this. Two of your LMGs are 0.75x movement, as opposed to the other factions who have zero. Mobility/agility is also the reason the Magrider is competitive overall with other MBTs, and what makes it unique where it can do things no other tank can. This is also part of the reason why the Scythe is the best hover-fighter, as I understand it.
  6. Stanis

    The magrider would be appalling with no-drop.

    The reason for this is not about the ease with which we hit enemy tanks. Arguably if we can see the tank we can hit it with either direct or arc fire. The problem is that direct fire implies a direct line of sight to the enemy putting us in their line of sight.
    With an arc smaller elements of terrain provide cover for us.

    The magrider struggles already to go 'hull down' effectively.
    Direct fire would make it impossible.

    Hull down importance for survival can't be overlooked.
  7. Peebuddy

    And Tr are in any better position? Our striker isn't unique and is a worse form of other lock on launchers, the volcan and marauder have been nerfed into nothing, and our faction "Trait" is about 5 extra bullets and terrible horizontal recoil. Nc/ Vs have weapons which practically match (and in some cases have higher RoF) Tr guns, the fact people still scream "But that's our faction trait" is meaningless at this point with all these guns that cross borderlines.

    BTW at least your faction still uses their faction guns, Nc/ Tr all use NS weapons. We're like fighting Nanite Systems over here, they've cornered the market after bribing Sony officials.
  8. Divinorium

    I don't think it would be THAT powerful. IF they also added the otherside of the coin: Less damage as distance pass.(Energy dispersing)

    Imagine that: BASRS without bullet drop but also have slow speed and doesn't OHK in a headshots over 150/200 meters of distance.

    So the weapon would be the "king" in fights of 100~150 meters but meh in other distances.

    Bonus points if SOE doesn't add a weapon to fullfill this "weakness", all Snipers rifle have a HUGE damage drop over distance, So his trait is a TRAIT, not just a temporary boost while in the right distance.

    But i don't think SOE have the balls to do so.
    And vanu tears would float Auraxis if it happened.
  9. Nody

    Lasher - Matters when that it's no drop? That doorway 30m away that is being suppressed don't and are you seriously suggesting someone is trying to Lasher suppress at 150m?
    Lancer - Matters only due to weapon being designed around it . I'd swap it for Phoenix or Striker (works in zergs and any coordinated group can handle AV with any NS weapon of choice which is a requirement for Lancer to matter)
    PPA -Agreed; it matters on this one for a change.
    Vortex - Never matter, never will because there's no reason to pull one because you'll never have a chance to use it at ranges matters (no zoom, can't kill infantry, can't fill MAXes)
    Comets - Anyone hit by a Comet beyond 30m is either blind, afk or need new glasses; a.k.a. does not matter (to slow, to bright).
    nearly every infantry weapon - Except at the range it would matter you can't really deal damage in the first place as you need a sniper rifle (since Shotty's been nerfed).
    two unique sniper rifles. - You mean the one that got OHK range of 100m when no other rifle needs it? Sorry but normal Bolt or the Railjack beats this one by a mile (you don't need bullet drop if your bullet is fast enough and the "normal" once are all copy and paste jobs).

    And we don't have it on other categories that other factions do; i.e. there's no mobility / agility trait benefit for VS they simply gave different factions their 0.75x movement buff to different types for "faction difference". As for ZoE? Yea, let me take 30% more damage, light up like a Christmas tree for ZERO gain in ttk on any target I can hit but yay I'm faster so that's ok!

    How is Hovering = to increased mobility? If anything it should be a TR trait (standing still). The MBT is not competitive because of it's agility but because it runs 2/2 more often then any other tank and tend to flank more often because it simply can't fight anything straight on (this also means there's no way to deal with a armor zerg rolling on your bases with ground because your tank can't actually deal with it and the flanking locations take one tank only).



    Actually VS has been shown to have the least used ES weapons of all empires and if you ask which AR to bring most suggest the 11A; that's how good our ES weapons are.
  10. Arkenbrien

    Hmmm...

    That's partially true, the arc may help a little when firing behind a rock, but remember that bullets originate from the player camera, not the gun. This helps the mag out a bunch when firing behind a rock, as the gun is so low, but the projectile fires through the rock. An arcing shot would do the same job as a direct shot as long as the target is at least level with the Mag. If the target was lower, the direct shot wouldn't be able to hit.

    I'm not against arcing projectiles on the Mag's cannon. I do think the Mag is entitled to a new weapon with no drop.
  11. Stanis

    its not about how we hit them with our gun.

    its about whether the enemy can hit us or not.
    the positioning of a tank with arc of fire means we can be on the reverse of slope. it may be minimal but that provides cover.
    with a direct fire weapon we will be forced to expose ourselves more.

    it may be easier to hit with a direct fire weapon.
    but once you've practiced being accurate with the fpc its worth it.
    • Up x 1
  12. Posse

    Lasher? Crap
    Vortex? Just a worse Lancer, meh
    Comets? I'd rather have the velocity of the Fractures with drop.
    Worthless for infantry weapons, and sniper rifles have drop actually (except the Phaseshift I think, but that one is bad bad bad)


    The only weapons where no-drop actually means something are the Lancer, the PPA and the old Saron (the new one is useless at ranges where no drop would matter)
    • Up x 1
  13. NinjaKirby

    I'd like to see the Maggy get No Bullet/Canon Drop tbh, obviously rebalance the stats surrounding it.

    Basically make it like a C&C Obelisk or RA2 Prism Tower, except without the lightning speed projectile.

    My only concern would be No Drop combined with somewhat Stabalised Turret. I've lost count how many times I've lost to a Maggy because when we were both strafing/manoeuvring it's been impossible to cater to the random uneven terrain beneath me. Add that to catering to zero arc, holy crap.

    It needs to be done right. Maybe slow velocity/high damage and very high velocity/low damage canon configurations. Sounds cool tbh, I'd be jelly.
  14. Arkenbrien

    Or perhaps high damage/very high velocity/obscenely long reload. Perhaps 8 sec reload standard, certable to 5. Maybe even longer. This would make it more balanced in CQC, but make it effective at what no drop is actually useful for, and that is at range. If not, the I would take the slow velocit/high damage option if we keep the current saron. If the Old Saron is re-introduced (as a separate weapon), the high velocity/low damage would be cool.
  15. NinjaKirby

    Aye, or since we are enjoying "charge up" and "delayed" firing options lately, perhaps the former could work. Holding down the Canon firing key to charge for different velocities, and can only be held for a short while once maxed out. God, that would be so awesome :3 Currently most the game is Monkey Island, point and click. LET ME HOLD DEM MOUSE BUTTONS! Hehe.
  16. Redderic

    The Magrider is a conundrum.

    Bottom Line Up Front - Buff the Magrider in one of two areas,

    Option 1:
    Significantly increase the Magrider's main-cannon velocity and increase the Magrider's ability to aim upwards.

    Option 2:
    Significantly increase the Magrider's main-cannon damage and increase the Magrider's ability to aim upwards.

    The first option would encourage the Magrider to operate at long-range, while the second option encourages close-range "glass cannon" high risk / high reward engagements. The first option melds well with the Halberd and the Magrider's ability to strafe actually means something at long-range. The second option melds well with the Saron (which I've dropped for the Halberd) and Magburn.

    I've changed the way I play the Magrider for one of two different play-styles. Heavy Harasser and Medium-range stationary vehicle sniper. I cannot envision any other viable playstyle. The first involves mobility - never stopping, and playing highly aggressively; this play style demands that the environment is not flat and had numerous obstacles and obscures line of sight. The second involves sitting back and hitting enemy zergs with an AP cannon and a Halberd that are either too stupid or too slow to move after taking fire (this one actually generates the most kills).

    The Magirder is at so many disadvantages, you have to find the few small areas where the vehicle can shine. It takes a lot of experience, cert investment, and patience to make the vehicle viable. The Magrider is great, but it needs a lot of work to make it remotely competitive and not force the Magrider to play better 100% of the time against its opponent. (I.e. a moderate-skill Vanguard is much more powerful than a moderate-skill Magrider).
    • Up x 1
  17. MagMourner

    I think that 'balance' is very difficult to achieve with non-like abilities, such as the
    go-anywhere versatility of the Magrider versus the tough armour and fearsome gun of the Vanguard.

    Overall I would say that the Magrider could do with a bit of love - even with thousands of certs into it,
    it still feels a bit weak compared to the other MBTs. It HAS to be 2/2 otherwise it will almost
    certainly lose in many situations. As a 1/2 Prowler or Vanguard, I'm much more gung-ho, Which is lucky as I rarely
    attract a gunner when i'm in them. (Note - can we PLEASE have something that lets others know 'I really want a gunner')

    But there are other advantages that are much harder to quantify. When i'm zerging with TR or NC,
    the fact that the tanks are all track-vehicles creates choke points and can even block you in when you
    are being fired upon. With the Magrider, Lightnings just pass underneath and you can generally move around much
    easier - you just have to be careful not to flip.

    On the flipside (not literally), the Magrider guns are slow and droopy; shooting ESFs or Libs is very challenging; almost futile.

    In the Vanguard, I stand a better chance of landing a shot. In the Prowler I get two goes. ESF and Liberator pilots would laugh at a stranded 1/2 Maggie.

    Could the Magriders guns do with a buff ? I think so - velocity certainly, but I think that no-drop would be too powerful in combination with the mobility.

    HOWEVER - I also think that ALL MBTs could do with a buff or two. After multiple nerfs, they all feel a bit weak...
    • Up x 1
  18. Nepau

    This can be true. I think a week ago someone was calling me a hacker because I managed to arc my shots to kill a prower behind a rock.

    I wouldn't say no to us having the Option of having lob shots or straight shots though. Then again we had one in the Saron which has been nurfed and redesigned quite a few times.
    • Up x 1
  19. Arkenbrien

    A 'hot fix' that would instantly open up a lot of options tactically for the Mag is to re-introduce the old Saron. Remove splash, remove charge up, and suddenly the Mag can operate much better on longer ranges. It would even work for a 1/2 Mag if it was far enough away from the front line, and the pilot found a good sniping spot.

    It would be fairly simple: add a new secondary like the old saron (under a different name) with the above suggestions, and add one or two new main laser cannons. Here are few ideas (not saying there the best) for the new cannons:

    1 - Make two new cannons - One has high velocity/low damage, the other low velocity/high damage.

    2 - Make a single new cannon - Give it high velocity/high damage/high reload. This would make it good for long ranges, and bad at CQC.

    3 - Make a single new cannon - Make it a super Lancer. 4-6 shots per mag, but give it the option to charge up the shot for much higher damage.
  20. Cinnamon

    Remove bullet drop but halve velocity. Seems like a fair trade to make the weapons more unique.