Statistical liberators kill

304 Kills
154 Vehicle kills

Any group of players doing that is face-palmingly bad, considering it would take half that many ESFs to not only clear the skies but take out all attacking Sunderers too.

It's the same with groups of infantry who believe they can rocket down a tank. Meanwhile I can jump into an ESF as a single player and just rear-end the tank with one salvo of rockets and some nosegun spray, and it's dead -- without the requisite 5+ dead infantry.

Infantry players need to realize they're terrible outdoors. Or not, and just keep feeding vehicle players easy XP outside. It's up to you.

I don't think they meant literally but thanks for sharing anyways.

Why should you expect to get the kill on sight?

This has been on my mind for a while: Why do players expect to ALWAYS get the kill when faced with a force multiplier? Why is deterrence frowned upon?

Yeah you didn't get the full kill but you are able to keep the lib crew from completing their goal. Why isn't that good enough? I mean it can be enough keep your faction from losing a battle, but yet people seem to be more worried about the kill.

I don't think libs are OP against ground at all. Saying over coms;"I need a gunner" is the same as saying "we need more AA." So why should infantry get a special snowflake card for coordination and the libs get nerfed?

But I do think that they are too agile in the air, being able to fly (or at least shoot) effectively while upside down or even at a 90° angle is a bit crazy.

Yeah, I don't expect to get a kill on sight, but deterrents in general are not favorable styles of gameplay. Especially if there is no accessible killing unit to counter another unit. Skyguards are dedicated weapons (COF is too big for infantry killing and you only piss off tanks a little bit by shooting them, not to say I haven't killed tanks with the Skyguard. it is just not an easy task) and somehow they are still limited to deterrent roles (with the exception of ESFs, buggers go down in seconds or less). If Liberators had to choose between AI or AV with no chances for good AA (they get a deterrent tailgun to discourage ESFs) then I could understand, but at the moment guns like the Shredder do heavy damage to armor (even with the damage fall off) and get near instantaneous kills against infantry (MAXes are included in this, too.

I am not asking for infantry to become any more versatile, but I do want specialized weapons to be really **** good at what they do if they are going to suck at everything else. Weapons like the Walker-H and Ranger-H should be buffed to exceed the power of their MBT and Sunderer brethren. Besides, they are the most underperforming weapons for the Harasser (minus the Confetti Cannon Canister).

And yes, I do think Libs take a massive hit to maneuverability. Dogfighting Libs should not be a thing. If you are going to be the A2G craft of choice there should be restrictions to how you maneuver. Force libs to rely on the Combined arms of fighter escort that they are always talking about lol.

I thought to myself a couple things:

1: The number of people that don't understand, or won't accept that this is a combined arms game is astounding.
2: The number of people that refuse to consider counters to the problem in favor of removing or severe nerf is amazing.

I was very surprised. How could a community of gamers be so juvenile?

I dont believe that is true. I was at a tower fight where the numbers where small on both sides and 2 of us had dual burster maxs and peeked out of the uppper deck spawn shields to take shots at the LIB that hovered directly over the center of the tower. It easily killed both of us without taking more than a 1/3 of its health away. Now. lets look at the stats: 1 lib = 350 resources and needs 2 guys, 2 burster maxes need 700 resources and 2 guys and the Lib will win every time unless you add a 3rd and 4th guy in the form of Medic and Engi. Wow 4 guys and 700 resources can barely beat 2 guys and 350 resources.
There is balance - NOT.
The libs can take way to much damage and i think the stock level is fine but should not be able to cert into higher levels of damage resistance, and 2 should not be able to do nanite autorepair and should HAVE TO fly off and heal rather than hover beyond range for a minute and come back. This makes it easier to hit them on the way in rather that let them hover out of range ABOVE you.

So, if what you say is true, then the reality is that organized play is much more effective (ture) but when you sit outside the base after spawning your tank and nobody jumps in as second gunner you lose to other tanks that are manned by 2, When you sit at the warp gate after spawning a lib and have to wait forever for someone to jump in to be a gunner, you give up ever doing that again and stick to infantry play.
YOU have to accept reality that this is not the army and no one follows any orders and there should be counters on an individual level to organized game play (libs and tanks) and when there arent it is less enjoyable. It is true that most refuse to redeploy when spawn camped and individually can do that and pull an ESF to counter the air or pull a tank or AV mana turret and get to the nearest overlook spot and start decreasing the tankers surrounding your attacked base, but it is what it is. I find there are not enough good youtube videos on tactical gameplay and info on the mechanics of the game. Lots of vids on great players, or what to know as nooby but they dont really go into the higher levels of gameplay knowledge aquired after hundreds of hours of play and forumside when they could easily do that.

And I have defended a tower where a squad with multiple ESF's and a Liberator flying around and I pretty much handly killed 4 of the ESF's and eventually killed the Liberator after it flew off 2 times to repair, I did have a random engineer that would repair me.

One of the tricks that I find works best for bursters is SPRINT, especially with rocket podders. Start shooting and as they are lining up their shot and start shooting sprint away, while reloading. As soon as your sprint is over, continue to shoot until they are dead. This works really well at tower tops as well, as you can sprint around the top of the tower and completely avoid their rounds. If they are locking down the top doors too well teleport down to the bottom and shoot from there.

You make a good point ... But sadly 95% of cap points are either outdoors or require going out doors ( from the spawn ) to defend ...

Once again we pretty much come down to the problem the game has had since Beta .. ****** Base design

Countryside Between bases should be the realm of vehicles ..
Bases should be the realm of infantry ..

But sadly SOE's idea of combined arms is " spam ordnance into a base "

Lib farmers should realize something:

Libs are overpowered. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. You aren't going to convince the devs different.
Libs are overpowered because the new weapons came out. Same thing happened to the Harasser and Infil. \
Now, think what else happened to the Harasser and Infil? They were over nerfed.
You can stop this by:
One, admitting that libs are overpowered.
Two, helping to provide ways to rebalance them.

You have the chance to keep you libs decent, or you will lose them.

Personally, I just what libs to go back to pre-buff. No one asked for it, they didn't need it.
Let them keep all their new toys, as is.
Buff back the Dalton
Nerf Back the Resistance.

I guess I don't feel that this trait automatically makes bases badly designed. I have a lot of fun at most bases.

But I'm definitely a strong advocate for embracing players' infantry affinity. Players love infantry, so there should be more and larger portions of the game which are infantry-dominant, and that means having more and larger indoor spaces.

They just have to learn from Bio Labs (and fix Bio Labs,) that if the attackers can't use vehicles to suppress the defenders' hard spawn, the hard spawn needs to be far enough away from the capture points that defenders aren't handed an automatic win (automatically handing one side victory for any imbalance (base, vehicle, weapon) makes for bad PVP.)

So the ideal indoor base actually has a pretty cruddy hard spawn location (distant from capture points) but with easy access to land/air vehicles, and several potential soft spawn locations which are much closer to the capture point(s). These don't necessarily have to be Sunderer locations, since if something is a sundy location it's usually also a tankable location. But the idea that any given base map has both static (capture point) and player-created (sunderer) objectives really improves gameplay. Not only does it cause the base to play differently each attack (keeping things fresh) but by having more "important" objectives you allow an outnumbered side a bit more opportunity to skillfully outmanuever their opponents (as long as those objectives are spread out enough and have enough cover that an outnumbered force can skillfully outmanuever to win.)

Excuses. What have you done for yourself lately?

Like people told before. not everyone is able to fly an esf with maximum effectiveness. A default esf needs to empty 4 complete magazines into a default lib, and most people have the default plane. i don't start to talk about how many it takes to take out a sunder.

imo, anti air isn't that bad in the game, but there is no good way to use it, because the spam is camped. I really liked the dome shields, maybe not as big as on the test server but yea, they should cover a good area of the spawn room.

Here's what I don't understand,what do you guys think vehicles are supposed to do in this game? Yeah they overpower infantry so what? I thought that was the idea. When you are overpopped the chances of winning are slim and impossible without vehicles. It's already way too easy for masses of infantry to clear out vehicles,but any idea other than "Oh a huge vehicle,let me just get my C4" get's immediately met with "No! NO! eff that nobody wants to hear that ish! JUST NERF IT!" If Libs weren't as durable as they are now they would just get vaporized instantly the same way that the rest of the vehicles in this game do BY INFANTRY. As far as I'm concerned the Liberator durability need's to spread out across the rest of the vehicles,they should be the dominating force while the infantry are for capping points and trying to avoid them not fight them.

People prefer infantry combat to vehicle combat. Especially in PS2, because infantry combat is solid, while vehicle combat is not very exciting. There are much better vehicle combat games out there, but this is the only persistent world massive FPS.

FPS games are lot more popular than vehicle games. If SOE wants to ruin the game, then your suggestion is fine. If they want it to thrive, then vehicles should be toned down. As simple as that. Or make the vehicle game much better, but with the current non-existing flight model and way too simplistic behavior of vehicles is not enough to run a successful vehicle based game. (Eg. look at World of Tanks or WWII online with the TONS of vehicle types and complexity and much better interaction.)

I'm not sure you understand how tanks work. They don't lock down spawns. They spam at them and get kills on idiots who run out in the direction they're in.

The 'vehicle game' is just fine. Also this is an FPS game with vehicles. Deal with it.

Dude. It's not problem with vehicles overal. It's a problem of Liberator. Because it's on top of food chain, killing infantry, ground vehicles and aircrafts alike.

So not only do those players need to jump into ESFs to counter the Lib, but they also need to jump into ESFs more to practice piloting (since aircraft are so critical to outdoor battles -- countering libs being one of the reasons they're critical.)

The default ESF is fine for countering Libs, and really only has issues with killing Sunderers (although again, aircraft are so critical that it's silly for rocket pods not to be one of the earlier purchases for new players.)

I mean sure, it extends into all sorts of mini-discussions on whether all vehicles should start with one competitively-viable max-rank cert in each slot, like flares (they should) and whether things like the second burster arm and rocket pods should be unlocked by default since they're such critical upgrades (they should), but even if none of those things matter there's no reason new players shouldn't be flying the Lib counter if they're dying to Libs, because even a fresh new-player-ESF is the best weapon they're going to have for killing the thing that's farming them.