MBT vs Double bulldog on sunderer.

So I was in my vanguard and a sunderer came into sight. I shot it, then again as it rolled forward and up the bank, then again as it's double bulldogs started shooting me. I shot it again as my shield was active and again along with a reaver lobbing rockets into it. My shield wore off and needless to say those bulldogs tore my vanguard apart so ******* fast it is ********, Are MBTs not supposed to carry some kind of threat? Or are bulldogs stupidly op?

Were you using HE shells or something?

Im curious about this as well.

Ive never fully understood the bulldog. they shoot grenades that have a massive explosion, but an effective explosive radius of the fury's visual explosion. They do a good bit of damage against armor, but have a surprisingly small effect against infantry. IMO, the bulldog should be a massive AOE AI weapon. Its damage should not be terribly significant, but its Area should be, and its Anti-armor capability should be close to nothing. Thats my little world anyways.

Let's see. Most likely the Sundy was running Dual bulldogs (probably upgraded) with Full Composite Armor & Fire Suppression. You also didn't specify if the Sundy was able to get behind you or if you were taking any other damage. You also don't know if the Reaver actually hit the Sundy (he could have been a blind idiot for all we know).

Bulldogs do pack a punch. Sundies do soak a good amount of damage... Even 1/2 AP tanks take awhile to take them down... Especially if the Sundy is spec'd to take a lot of damage. However, the bulldogs also have an incredibly short range (you have to seriously lob them to get beyond 60m or so.) If you were only using HEAT and had no top gunner... you were at a disadvantage against a 3 person vehicle with higher armor.

I think this is due to the various nerfs/buffs that both had at release. Bulldogs were buffed (but visuals didn't change) and fury's nerfed (but visuals didn't change), etc. It's put them in a little bit of a visual disconnect. Fury's seem like they should be so much better than what they are based on visuals, bulldogs are much better than they seem visually. (Especially both against vehicles)

Any battle sundy will tear you a new one if they get close to you and you don't have an AV gunner with you, bulldogs or basilisks. They're also strongest at their rear as well, don't understand that one, but SOE does a lot of stupid things.

as a rule of thumb, 1/2 is going to be less effective than 3/12

I was using the stock cannon. I was always facing the Sundy but we were in a tight area so being close was unavoidable. It did not have extra armor but I don't know about fire supp. It was as if the vanguard's front armor didn't exist. My main issue was the rapage of the bulldogs in which I seemingly underestimated, just found it a little op ATM. More annoyed than anything when I wrote the thread.

You'll lose to a manned composite battle Sunderer unless you have an AV MBT with a gunner. If they drive in reverse to you, you'll lose regardless.

It's one of those times where an anchored prowler is the best way to deal with a sunderer. But anything short of that means that sunderer stands a pretty good chance of winning if they're certed for combat.

Nothing is allowed to do massive damage to infantry. Never underestimate the power of infantry tears. They managed to get the viper (a ~10kg explosive the size of a baseball traveling at bullet velocity) to NOT kill them in one hit.

a "battle" sundey can be surprisingly effective. I actually prefer double basilisk when facing vehicles.

did you have a gunner?

1. Weight of the 75mm caliber shell is about 6 kilos, that's talking about whole shell, not projectile or explosive charge only.
2. I don't hear you complaining that a one-man light tank with paper armor requires 5 (FIVE!) consecutive hits with a rocket launcher to even start burning.

Actually, bulldog can kill :
Stock harasser is 5 shot
Lightning (front) in 12/13 shot
MBT (front) in 13/14 shot
Vanguard (front) in 15/17 shot

So yes, a fully certed battlebus with dual bulldog is dangerous. Just don't forget you are playing a game and it's not reality.

They may also have been hitting your top armour if the sunderer was high enough above you.

Make that 3/3-12... 9 of those seats can't do anything. I suppose they 'could' get out but I still wouldn't consider them a threat unless they're lockon heavies or AV maxes.

But other then that, I agree.. a solo Vanguard driver shouldn't expect to win that close to a fully manned sundy.. but how did that happen. Vanguards have the longest ranged cannons. Even if it were HE, he should have won. Not saying dual bulldogs caused it.. dual bulldogs meant he was bumper to bumper with that sundy.

There's not a balance issue here... this was driver error and a half.

don't get close to a sundy.. even in a tight area.. better to get out.. and try again later..
if you are close to a sundy, not only do all of their guns get you easily..
but....
next thing you know a few HAs jump out and you get rocket spammed while taking bulldog / basilisk fire.. .. then you really die fast..

Dual bulldog sunderer with armour is very strong at close range.

So the best idea is to keep your distance (esf vs lib style) and shoot them outside of their effective range, just keep moving and shoot.
They can keep up to you for sure, but by the time they get to you if they start shooting at you from around 200-300m, they will be down to very low HP when they get to you.

Now if they get the jump on you and kill you at close range well there is not much you can do about it. Instead, try to not get into those situations.

Teamwork OP. The sunderer was probably manned by three people.