A2A missiles and Coyotes, do you love them?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Silkensmooth, Apr 18, 2014.

  1. VoidMagic

    They could have fixed Tomcat by making the period between firing them alot longer like maybe 30 seconds. Tom's were great for chasing fleeing threats over territory you didn't want to fly over... also... made you feel like you were in the DANGERZONE... lol

    anywhoo... who cares.. just buff the nose guns... ESF vs ESF taking almost a minute is dumb.
  2. repinSniper

    I think this individual is on the right track and has a good mindset, can tell that there is a lot of solid advice in his words. Props to you, buddy, for having your own ideals!


    Tacticians rule the sky, there is no doubt. They know that there is no such thing as a fair fight, and understand that they must bend the odds to their favor using whatever means necessary. They are in it to win, although winning is not determined by K/D for the most part; they have goals, high awareness, and understand when to run and regroup. They do not focus for the good of the individual, but for the good of the wing as a whole. Tacticians can solo or wing pair as well, but understand how effective leading or fighting with a group for "victory" over the course of hours can be so rewarding.

    Introduce long range support roles, introduce close range harassment roles, introduce the age old ace, introduce wingman pairs clearing tails ASAP, introduce new pilots who know what they need to do to be the most effective with their beginner piloting skills; and I guarantee you will have high success with air dominance. That may not be the thing that drives you to fly though; that being said, if performed correctly 9 out of 10 engagements will go in your favor with minimal losses, high sustainability, minimal rams, and effective teamwork. Get upset that you can't effectively engage these "zergs" of air (although what you perceive as a zerg may just be coordination on a larger scale, and not all wings are equal in execution) without getting picked on, but don't get the idea that ace pilots are able to overcome the odds just with skill alone in every engagement. You were not meant to decimate greater numbers with fewer numbers unless the odds were in your favor or a great skill difference; get used to it, because I know that I have. (again, how do you find those aces in the swarm of less skilled enemies when everyone already has a tail to deal with? )

    That being said, Tomcats provide roles for the pilots who are not actively engaging on the six of a bogey or hover dueling, and coyotes prevent highly efficient hover fighters from ever feeling comfortable in the fight, overall increasing the firepower and "TTK" of an entire wing when used properly, as well as utility. You want to **** my effective group strategy telling me certain weapons are not to be used because of whatever reason you deem fit? Not going to happen. You want all my planes to use noseguns, afterburners, rocket pods, and hornets? Not going to happen (even though sometimes it does... as you can see it's not to effective against highly evasive pilots... )

    Sure, it's no fun going against a "low skill" weapon designed to dominate aircraft while they still have downsides which you are still able to counter; using proper methods to handle these weapons will provide you with the advantage to overcome them in even fights (being outnumbered doesn't count as an even fight unless you tip the odds somehow, again via skill or tactics)

    All this stuff can go out the window too in the wrong circumstances; **** happens. Ace pilots may have a superiority complex or may not, it matters not. They may condone weapon systems based on their ideals or based on other factors, or they may incorporate them into their and others play styles. "Noob" pilots have to start somewhere, and extra weapon systems may or may not help, experience and knowledge have always trumped cheese and obliviousness. Lets get off our high horses and start expecting to die once in a while when things turn ugly, not blame low skill weapons or sheer numbers overwhelming a pilot. Most of the aces are not accustom to dying, and others believe that to be an ace one should not lose their birds on a regular basis. While this may be a general truth, it is not law, it is not cannon, it is not a guaranteed fact. Minute long dogfights are amazing, but expect to taste death ( remember nanites, so it's really just a small delay and a smudge on a K/D number ) swiftly with these weapons being used when you are not prepared. Most often, these weapons will determine and shorten the length of small engagements with nigh guaranteed victory while positioning your wing away from threats; and can cause the wing to take few to no losses where as other load outs would gib portions of the wing operating longer over HOT territory (reducing wing effectiveness even more).

    The argument is age old over these and other weapons, other tactics, other "cheese", ect. But it comes down to this, the air game is not static, it is dynamic as can be. You can adapt to it, you can bring friends, you can be a dick if you want to or be a very nice guy. I do not actively judge myself or others based on opinions or statements directed at me or others or how people choose to fly; try to focus on the bigger picture and you will see that thinking outside the box to get results, to get rewarding accomplishments ( does not have to mean the same thing for everyone ), to break "meta" and be your own breed of successful in the air ( and that it is highly enjoyable and engaging to many individuals). And remember, when you shoot someone down, you are ruining someones day (or life... well ending his characters life and blowing up his sick ride he paid dear air resources for); so for the most part there will be frustration, it's only natural. And when this happens over and over again, it can be aggravating, demoralizing, rage-inducing, and revenge initiating. There are always two sides to this battle, the ones doing the *** kicking, and the ones taking it. Be mindful we are all human here (hopefully).
    • Up x 3
  3. Schwak

    Implying that anyone has 50% accuracy with their nosegun lol.
  4. Ubad00d


    Sorry, when did they make tomcats useless? If by useless you mean, you have to look at the enemy for a few seconds without having to think about leading to get a guaranteed 50% damage on your enemy...sure.
    • Up x 1
  5. Dead soldier

    Coyotes... I once trialed them on amerish and went around with them with a Light PPA.

    2 minutes later I kill [NUC} Hader*, He had locusts and hornets, he didn't get me below 3/4 health.

    * I killed him when he was in [NUC], now he is in [GALM]
  6. IamnotAmazing

    yes please triple lockon damage, good luck having a game after that, considering how many pilots have already left...
  7. SushiCW

    Do I love them? No.

    Do I hate them? No.

    Do I use them? No.
  8. Burevestnik

    Last time i was flying a A2AM and i'm speaking here about Tomcats here. They do break lock upon impact forcing you to re-lock the target once more.

    I very much favor the idea of forcing people to rely on one weapon at a time. The addition of the Tomcats working in tandem with Rotary simultaneously was a bad one. I also think that their range should be extended by around 50 meters(more than now)with the certification line but in return the Tomcats should have around 100 meter dead zone to the front of the aircraft where they will simply not lock. That way you get a very good long range weapon and the close range nerf will solidify the Tomcat A2AM's role as such.
  9. TheChippewa

    It's not 50%..lol it's 33.3333333333% get it right if you're going to even try to talk smack.
  10. Runegrace

    Tomcats are the reason that I stuck with the air game. Sometimes I'd kill someone with nothing but, then usually 2 plus a bit of nose gun, then only 1 Tomcat as an opening or closing shot, and now I only put them on a build as a change of pace. They were fire-and-forget, so as a new pilot I could throw them off then use my nose gun during the reload period. It gave me the ability to slowly practice my nose gun skills rather than simply being sec-killed.

    The problem I have with the A2A missiles, even while using them, is that they're too spammable. I haven't really certed reload time with the Coyotes because I usually only throw them off during a reload, but with it maxed you can use it as a primary weapon. And that's really the main problem. Coyotes would likely be pretty balanced if they outright replaced the nose gun, but having something that is competitive with the nose gun, PLUS nose gun DPS on top of that, is where it seems to go wrong.

    I like both Coyotes and Tomcats. Giving up AB is a pretty big deal, as you lose so much survivability. AB lets you outrun G2A missiles, lets you bug out from flak, plus lets you pull off fancy maneuvers in air combat. If a wing of A2A users is coming after you, you can just leave. Someone with a secondary weapon simply cannot catch you.

    HOWEVER. The spam of the weapons needs to be reduced. I've long said that Tomcats should have their reload time roughly doubled, and the Coyotes could use a similar treatment. Heck, now that Tomcats can actually be blocked by terrain I'd like the fire-and-forget returned to them if they did this change. Longer reloads would mean these weapons would give an edge in A2A at their proper ranges, but would still require a good deal of nose gun use during the downtime between reloads. I think that's the only change that needs to be made on these weapons.
    • Up x 1
  11. \m/SLAYER\m/

    well, it confusing, being killed by lvl 100 scythe pilot with a2a missiles.. not shure, but didnt saw TR esf with a2a.
  12. Ubad00d


    Nope. Direct + indirect damage = 1350.

    ESF health = 3000

    Each missile does 45% damage.

    I missed the bit where there was smack talk anywhere aside from your post.
  13. Emotitron

    Any lock-on should be a weak secondary used to fill in those moments when the primary just can't reach or is re-loading. Lock-ons with the strength of a primary is largely what has driven all of the aces of old from this game, and certainly is why I log in rarely these days.

    This may make casual players happy in the short term, but in the long run it just makes for a game that gets stale very quickly once the novelty of combined arms wears off. When I started flying a year ago there were some known scary flyers on the server, and when you saw them in the air you got an adrenaline shot big time.

    Now, I am lucky if I see a recognizable name even in the air (though only like 2 people come to mind where I even think "I better step up my game here". Even if you do find yourself in a good dogfight it is usually only a couple of seconds before the coyote zerg joins in and ruins it for one of you.
  14. VeryCoolMiller

    A2A missiles are pure ****. Undodgeable missiles that hit for 50% of your life... pure garbage.
    Coyotes dmg should be lowered.
  15. biterwylie

    I love A2A lock on missiles. Not so much now they are no longer fire and forget as it makes them very hard to use against liberators. But I can say without them I would be food for all enemy ESF and would only use it as a taxi. At least with them I can do some alpha damage, although the fire suppression makes that almost worthless.

    I think it is really sad all the MLG pro's with their elitist attitude. Without us part time pilots you would not even have your nose gun nirvana.

    Thing that makes me really sick is when two factions Pro Pilots avoid each other on purpose to farm everyone else. That is super lame.
  16. VoidMagic

    well said... rarely understood... /nod

    also you have to be a pretty bad scrub or having a really bad (YOUR WASTED) time to get killed in a 1 on 1 by a tomcat user in this day and age.
  17. Burevestnik

    I got video footage of a single tomcat hit showing as 34% which is consistant with overal damage i feel when using them and damage i receive when being hit by them. I don't think that direct hits are even that common since Tomcats seem to be proximity fused. The 33% in that case makes perfect sense since it brings the kill average to 4 missiles.

    If target is at range then the damage output when relying on Tomcats alone to kill an aircraft you're chasing starting from start of the first lock to last impact will take what now?
  18. Nerp

    I hate tomcats, don't really like but can still tolerate coyotes.

    Tomcats though. Jesus christ, they are a pain in the ***, because they require next to no skill to use. You don't even have to lead, unlike with the coyotes. Either make it so there's a long delay between shooting the same person with one, or make thtem do like 20% damage only. It's annoying to have some pusscake sitting 300 metres away locking me while I'm fighting someone else, and them being able to take nearly half my hp in one hit. It's even more annoying when two of these ***** are chasing you at the same time.

    Funny enough, every time I take on a tomcat user head to head, without them having any support, they're extremely easy to kill.

    The people using tomcats often have no idea what they're doing, and they aren't even learning by getting any air time because they're relying on a weapon that actually makes them worse at flying. At least with the coyotes, you still have to move around and use your nose gun.

    I am fine with the way coyotes are right now. It's a win-win for the enemy and the user, I guess. The enemy can evade the coyotes and the user learns to lead and use his nose gun. Can't say the same about the Tomcat noob pods.
  19. Zenanii

    This is mind-boggling, truly. Why should you have a "fair chance" if you suck at flying? The aces didn't get to that level by opening their valet or being best buddies with a developer, they got there with practice and hard work! What kind of entitled attitude is it you have, to demand to be able to compete without investing the time to actually learn?
    It's the same in all other aspects or life, be it work, sports or games, the one who invest time to learn and master a area will beat others new to it. You either give it up or you suck it up and get better.

    I enjoy being good at what I do. But what's the point if I spend hours perfecting my flying and aiming and still have minimal overall impact because the newb-weapons close up the gap between the pros and the newbs?


    The reason I hate lock-ons is because they invalidate skill.
  20. DrBash00

    I personaly like the current system.

    Infight --> Coyotes
    Range Fight (Maby wingman for better Player) --> Tomcat AA Rockets
    Mobility + Striking power --> Maingun + Booster
    Allrounder Aircraft (Rocked Pods) --> Can also fight pretty well, but not as well as e dedicadet AA Plane.... ( a good rocked pod pilot will shoot a Tomcat guy down like nothing...)

    So it is not only about skill, but about teamplay and making Decition what is needet... (And about having te certs/SC to get the Rockets)


    @Topic of Tomcats: If you hate Tomcats so much, just move FAST close to the enemy Plane, he can not lock you while you pass him fast (because no plane can turn fast enough) so you simply go infight, and he can only stick to his Maingun. Just dont try to escape one, in Mid Air if you have no REALLY GOOD reason to belive you are MUCH FASTER as he is....