ESFs are not direct counters to liberators. So what is?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Kriegson, Apr 17, 2014.

  1. PKfire


    The point people should draw is that two vehicles (Lib vs ESF) fighting on the same level of skill (whatever that level may be) is not the one sided fight every other Liberator thread claims it to be. Sorry to rustle your jimmies.
    • Up x 2
  2. umbrellapower

    Everyone is biased, if you think you're an unbiased voice of reason you should go take a walk. Everyone tries to protect their ****** playstyles because Higby has implemented a system where everyone just tries to outcheese each other. And it's Liberator crews and ESF rocketpodders who have taken the cheese to the extreme. At least MAX users don't try to come up with paragraphs upon paragraphs of how their crutch takes skill.

    So what if I can manage to solo 90% of the Liberators in the sky because most of them are being annoying ***** trying to farm infantry. It doesn't mean I'm good, but it also doesn't change the fact that Liberators are currently too strong. Continue having fun deluding yourself that you're a god amongst peasants for abusing a broken vehicle. This game is plagued by disgusting players like you and the disgusting developers that enable these kinds of players. I'm out.
    • Up x 3
  3. Gundem



    What the ****?

    Um, okay.... Sure...


    Did I seriously say something that made me look like a Skygod?

    Anyone sane, please, tell me. I have no idea what's ruffling this guys jimmies.
  4. PKfire

    Guy was just throwing punches wildly, leave him be.
    • Up x 1
  5. BlakeA

    Moving on. Krigson do you have any follow up questions or topics to discuss?
  6. Wizz

    I'm east coast so my hours might be weird. I usually play 4pm-8pm (if I can manage the four hours lol..). I think thats like what? 1 to 5 west coast? Come stream snipe me sometime. I stream every session I play....

    On second thought Bacon scares the **** out of me. I like how our lives are now ;)
  7. WycliffSlim

    I don't think many people would use this purely because of the huge impact it would have on your AI/AV roles but I wouldn't be opposed to it. Something that would still help exponentially would be to allow you to switch vehicle loadouts. That way if you pull a skyguard and there's no air to shoot you can switch back to AP/HEAT. It would allow people on the ground to have the flexibility that ESF's/Libs have.

    I will 100% agree that ESF's/Liberators have the ability to easily make jack of all trades loadouts much more viable than Tanks. If you're in a tank and you give up your AP secondary for a Fury that puts you at a huge disadvantage against an AP/AP tank. In an ESF using rocketpods over AB pods doesn't really hurt you that much.

    This pretty much sums it up. Between equal skill levels ESF v Lib fights favor the ESF. The problem is, most of the bad Lib crews get farmed out of the air quickly by the good Libs and ESF's which means the only ones that survive for a long time ARE the ace crews. Therefore you get the effect of dying to a lot of BR100 Lib crews and thinking that's all the Lib is. In reality those high skill crews are in the minority, it's just that the lower skill players are getting swatted out of the air much quicker by the average pilot.
  8. WarmasterRaptor

    Strangely, that sentence would means Libs wins every time. It only needs one shot of Dalton to win. Because, if of same skill level, they both got really good aim and are awesome at leading shots. Therefore, as the ESF needs to constantly damages the lib, the latter only need to hit once...
    Otherwise, there is a skill disparity or a random piece of luck now.
  9. WycliffSlim

    No it wouldn't. That's like saying a sniper rifle will win every time against an SMG because the Bolt-action only needs to hit once to get the kill. If you mess up that one shot you're punished brutally for it. Even the best Dalton gunners are lucky to hit 5-10 percent of their shots on even mediocre pilots.
    • Up x 1
  10. WarmasterRaptor

    Well, first, it's only if the SR doesn't hit the head. Also, the Dalton doesn't have that "headshot" multiplier. It just needs to hit.
    If Snipers were OHK like the Dalton is, then yes, SR would win every time against SMGs. One bullet to kill is better than more. Always.
  11. Kriegson

    Running with the anology: ESF is a guy with an assault rifle, possibly grenades. More versatility and range.
    But Liberator is a MAX in comparison with not two but THREE weapons ranging from an instagib shotgun, to a longrange instagib cannon, to lockon missiles, and assault rifle and an LMG he can choose from. And he can use any 3 of the given weapons at any time, and shoot in 3 different directions.

    So even then the analogy doesn't hold up. Good shredder gunners can kill you nearly as fast as the TB, but with more range and not having to move the entire aircraft as much to get a lock on you. The walker likewise has great range and good consistant damage that is both easy to use with a wide fire angle.

    Sure, an ESF can sit back and plink away, but the lib outguns and outarmors you by miles and can quickly react to anyhting you throw at it with plenty of time to spare due to their survability, while the ESF getting "jumped" by a lib has literally no time to react between the insanely low TTk weapons and lag comp.

    But all I'm asking for is remove AB for lib and restrict belly gun based on the pitch and roll of the lib. That's enough to make ESF's miles more effective at taking them out. The belly should never be a factor in a dogfight unless someone flies below it, it makes no sense.
    • Up x 2
  12. WycliffSlim

    It really isn't... it's better IF you can land that one bullet before the other person lands 'x' bullets needed to kill you.

    And all of these weapons are only as effective as you allow them to be. The Liberator simply isn't good at range. It flat out isn't. Sure, you'll get the occasional lucky Dalton but it's not reliable.
    • Up x 3
  13. Gundem


    The Dalton is a sniper rifle with a 250m/s velocity, a 3 second reload and a limited firing angle. It is aiming at an extremely fast SMG Light assault with 3 dimensions of movement and an Afterburner.
  14. Geddes

    Esf's are direct counters to liberators. That being said, ps2 isnt a game of poker, where one hand simply beats another. As a run of the mill, mediocre, waterson pilot I can honestly say that most liberators dont frighten me, the ones that do, I just fly away or wait untill an opening appears. Game balance isnt something to base on one encounter, or two, or even three or four, it needs to look at thousands upon thousands of battles and outcomes. Getting killed once then making a thread about it comes off as a bit arrogant.
    • Up x 3
  15. lawn gnome

    add some C4 to the front of the gal and i am in!
    • Up x 1
  16. Kuro1n

    100 times? Sure let's do that. Got to find someone who can fly the plane first though.
  17. Vivicector

    There should not be any hard counters, that are just 100% death. ESF work as counters to Libs, if their pilot knows what to do. Too bad, that lolpoders don't... Number of enemy fighters, that were trying to ram my Lib is ridiculously high, rly. A medium-tier pilot, who knows what he is doing, is enough of the threat for Lib to go away. 2-3 ESFs are next to a death sentence (if they are clever enough not to ram the Lib or look very closely into its belly gun).

    Want ESFs to be direct counter? Then remove all A2G weapons from ESF, make tanks unable to kill infantry with C4, make Skyguard instagib any flying target, but unable to damage ground targets and so on... We are not playing rock-paper-scissors here.
  18. lawn gnome

    he likes to challenge people who don't know how to fly because stomping newbs somehow proves stuff.

    he has challenged me several times and at the moment most pilots could probably stomp me while i am in any ESF with most any build and weapon loadout without ever taking a hit, but that doesn't prove that all of the ESF weapons are horrible at hitting aircraft.

    they just don't want to listen to anyone who hasn't drank the koolaid. so i am learning how to fly and i will gather solid video evidence of how unbalanced their crap is. and they won't be able to use their standard "you aren't a pilot so you can't comment" BS to stop me.
    • Up x 1
  19. Kuro1n

    Well I am quite sure if I flew a lib with some people and he flew a ESF with standard stuff we would make mush out of him... We'll see if he accepts or not. Either way I agree with you man.
  20. IamnotAmazing

    I'm proving something because you say it's super easy when it's not
    • Up x 1