The lowest performing tank's only crutch was nerfed.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Angry Scientist, Apr 16, 2014.

  1. Titan6

    That's why I use the Vanguard as an artillery platform. I keep the shield for Liberator spam, honestly.

    Putting a Vanny in a tank fight is really just playing roulette. Sure, if you catch a prowler or Maggie unaware, you can do some pretty serious damage, but in a straight fight, without the shield. You'll mostly lose.

    Or at least that's my experience.
    • Up x 1
  2. DevDevBooday

    They are not downsides. If you have the same problems if you dont use it then its not a downside.

    1. Long cool down. Not being able to be invincible 24/7 is not a downside.
    2. High visibility. If you think so? Even then I wouldnt say that a downside like that is a proper counter balance for 6 seconds of invincibility.
    3. Being attached to the worse MBT. Not a downside, that isnt the shields problem, thats the tanks problem.

    A downside is supposed to be something that counters the upsides.
    E.g Aegis shield has downsides, you cannot fire whilst using it and it lowers your visibility.
    Anchor Mode has downsides. You get higher fire rate but you cant move, this is enough that some people dont see the ability as worth it.

    A proper downside for a Vanguard shield would be something like 'move slower whilst using it' or 'reload slower' etc.
    pre nerf ZOE was a classic example of an ability where its downside did not counterbalance its upside, it wasnt a sidegrade, ZOE was an upgrade.
    Same for Vanny shield atm, its not a sidegrade, its an upgrade. And it can never be strong until it has a proper counterbalance.
    Same for Magburn, it can never be stronger or more useful because it has no real downside.

    The more risk an ability had, the more reward you can gain.
    Prime example is anchor mode. It makes you devastatingly powerful yet there are no nerf Anchor threads on forumside because it has such a steep downside.
  3. co0kies

    I don't see any problem here. they were prepare for the hunt. You were running away scared. People usually mess up when they are under stress . At least you got a shot off.

    Ok let turn that table around. Mag got 1/2 with Heat without mag-burn. He would been dead way before he can turn around and fire a shot.
  4. Titan6

    I don't know why everyone seems to think the Magrider is some lumbering tank. It doesn't take that long for it to rotate (at least on rival chassis) and as smooth as it's suspension is, it's damn easy to land hits while moving.

    It's really bothered me that people seem to think that it can't turn around to save it's life.
    • Up x 1
  5. Luighseach



    I said that it did not effect it that much, not that it made zero difference. (Also that is not begging the question because I did not assume the conclusion since I was stating how I believe that the shield was not really affected that much). I was also only referringto the Vanguards Shield and not the overall tank.

    I think you misunderstood my comment about that.

    I believe that the Vanguard is a terrible tank at the moment outside of AV. Also the only reason the Vanguard is good at AV is because majority of Vanguards run pure AV with AP canon and Halberd/Enforcer. This plus a shield makes the Vanguard a really tough 1v1 opponent in AV especially when it is fought by non-AV oriented tanks. I mean when is the last time a 2/2 AV Vanguard fought a 2/2 AP Prowler with a Halberd, since I started playing this game(day 2 after launch btw) I have only seen maybe 2 or 3 pure AV Prowlers fight the Vanguard I was gunning for. ( For the record I know anyone in their right mind would not intentionally engage a Vanguard in an AV fight anyway)

    Anyway the basic point I was making is that the Nerf to the shield did not really effect the Shield or the Vanguard that much Since you still get the basic utility that the shield is already provided which was an OMG button before you where about to die or right before you get C4ed. While I have gunned for Vanguards it is very rare that an enemy takes down the entire shield before the time was up.

    However I still believe the Vanguard is a sub-par tank solely on the aspect that it sucks versus everything but the occasional dumb ESF that hovers near by and the bad tankers that don't watch their flanks or realize that the Vanguard is most likely setup to destroy tanks anyway.
    • Up x 1
  6. co0kies

    I never say Magrider was lumbering. If a AP/Enforcer combo sneak up on my *** when I was at 80% health then I wouldn't have enough time to fire a shot. I may have turn the whole way around but I would most likely be dead.
  7. Titan6

    I was just speaking in general. A lot of people act like the Magrider can't turn around at all. I've been hit in the rear and spun around quick enough to face my attacker, or I've burned away and swagged around him.

    Personally, the Mag is the most fun tank to play.
    • Up x 1
  8. co0kies

    IMHO most fun to play when you have a good gunner but most definitely the most fun to gun for
  9. sestun

    I'll trade you my lock-down and die ability for shields any day.
  10. TheStonehawk

    I don't even pull vanguards because they suck so hard. The stats really don't lie.

    Love the prowler though. Lockdown is awesome and allows for you to do some serious artillery work.
    • Up x 1
  11. PrimePriest

    Prooo-tip of the dayyy....if you feel like Vanguard is bad now, just go full time Lib. As much as I like Vanny, there's no task that you couldn't do better in Lib.
  12. Goretzu


    1. The downside it's not being able to use it 24/7 it is not being able to use it again for so long after you have used it, this limits the shield massively in use and scope (compared to a shield you could stop and re-use or on with a much short CD).

    2. It is, it alerts everyone in its render range to its presence.

    3. Indeed, but as SOE seem to have no intention of buffing the stock chassis, it remains a huge downside.

    Imagine if Anchor lasted for only 6 seconds and had an unavoidable 45 second cool down - would you honestly claim it had no downsides over the current version? :rolleyes: It may well be more useful, but then the stock Prowler Chassis is already way better than the stock Vanguard Chassis to begin with.


    If any of what you claim were actually true the Vanguard would be outperforming the Prowler and Magrider, it not only is NOT outperforming them (and never has), but in several ways it is still underperforming against them.

    So clearly the odd silly tanker that tries to win a 0m slugging match with a Vanguard with a shield not on CD (with a shield on CD a Prowler will easily win btw even at 0m) who them comes to the forums to whine about it is NOT representative of either actual BALANCE or what is happing IN PS2. :cool:
    • Up x 1
  13. Fang7.62

    Yep, our outfits tank core has switched to libs because they are more durable than a vanguard, better armed, can FLY, have no real counters except other libs and multiple esfs and generally its fun ez mode farm.
    • Up x 1
  14. Ttariel

    God forbid you lose some seconds on the nope button.
  15. Sebastien

    God forbid people get good.
  16. DevDevBooday

    When referring to whiners are you referring to yourself? You are whining about it being UP I never said it was OP, i never said it was making the Vanguard better than any tank. I agree, its underperforming. Im saying that the shield is dumb, its a broken concept that is keeping the tank broken. SOE will NEVER buff the Vanguard while that shield is propping it up.
    im also saying that the stats you are looking at are irrelevant when arguing for the shield as it tells you nothing effectiveness of the shield.
    SOE doesnt nerf these things 'for teh lulz' They more than likely nerfed it from usage statistics.
    No KPH stat is going to say if a non-offensive ability such as the shield is good. But what DOES tell you if its good is percent of Vanguards that have the shield equipped. Its its 95% or so for instance, that would mean it must be too good because no one is using NAR or smoke etc.
    You guys would have brought this on yourselves by not equipping anything else.


    And yes, If i recieved 6 seconds of super reload and velocity whilst still being able to move I would say that Anchor had no downside. Because it wouldnt. I would come up to a tank, use it, destroy them, and trundle away.
    I would like that please.
    6 seconds of super fast shooting with no downside is pretty good.
    'oh wait', you would say, 'im using ammo faster, thats a downside!'
    -_-
  17. Aegie

    More like God forbid they ever balance the MBTs- all Vanguards would be :) and all Mag/Prowlers would be :mad:

    Also, not sure too many people notice but many (if not most) Vanguard drivers agree that the shield is a bad idea- that is not the issue here, however.

    The issue here is that even with the shield the Vanguard is consistently the worst at just about everything.

    So nerfing the shield without bringing the Vanguard up to par in other ways is BS. Plain and simple.

    People who support such a nerf without balancing the MBTs are, IMO, disingenuous and contributing to the problem.

    At this point, I would say they need to completely remove all special abilities from all MBTs- then, collect performance metrics so they can balance the actual MBTs themselves without abilities. During this time they can rethink some of these because honestly no one seems to be that happy with any of them (whether giving or receiving). Then they can reintroduce new/augmented ES abilities and balance those.

    Honestly, these have been imbalanced for so long and it really does not make any sense for MBT platforms for some empires to completely outshine the platforms of others regardless of the abilities. Of course, it also does not make sense to then, once you have balanced the basic platforms, to introduce imbalanced abilities but I hardly see how you could expect to do both simultaneously.
    • Up x 1
  18. Evilsooty

    I am! Anchor mode is brilliant. With what other tank can you down a hovering Lib in seconds? Love to get those extreme menace bonuses when you blow one farming a base out of the air.
    • Up x 1
  19. Icedude94

    Don't forget that SOE does not look at only the tanks when they did this balancing patch. It's a combined arms game and they nerfed the AV Mana turret by a lot. I would guess that their statistics show it was the most used infantry weapon against enemy armor. By nerfing an AV weapon, you're buffing all armor.

    We can speculate then that the different nerfs to vehicles including the effectiveness of anti-infantry roles for some goes along with balancing a combined arms game. I would agree with a lot of the above posters if this game only had tanks but it's combined arms.

    That's what I see when I look at the change to nanite auto repair. It didn't do you much good in tank vs. tank combat, but that ability made a big difference when fighting infantry and still does. At least that ability is a bit more balanced now.
  20. axiom537

    Both the TR and VS pull more MBT's then the NC, so it stands to reason that the NC are killing more MBT's with their MBT. You will also notice that NC kill more Prowlers & Magriders with C4 then the VS and TR do, which is again directly related to the population of Prowlers and Magriders and not because NC C4 is more OP then VS or TR C4.
    • Up x 1