Top 5 Vanguard Myths... with Numbers!

Vanguards significantly gained more gunner usage around the ESAV Secondary changes and Harasser release. We are now almost even with the VS. While the TR actually lost most since that patch because Vulcan got butchered and still is butchered until SOE finally realizes what's wrong with it(not that there are like infinite numbers of logical and through out suggestions on the forums).

Vanguards do kill less total Vehicles than Prowlers actually, wanna know why? Because TR pulls about 25% more MBTs but also 25% less Lightnings compared to NC and VS. NC actually pulls a significantly larger portion of Lightnings than anybody.

But per unit the Vanguard is actually a good AV Tank, especially in good hands because of all the little bugs and work arounds to make it better. Bugs that have been reported and been wide spread since years now! Third person recoil absorb, gear popping, invert reverse steering and all that. It's common knowledge for most dedicated Vanguard users, problem is there are almost none anymore ...

What the Vanguard really lacks is AI firepower, that's why NC has more than double the amount of MBT Kobalt kills than TR or VS but only like 5 people worldwide that use the Canister ...

General thing is, all 3 MBTs suck, the Viper Lightning now also does, everybody will run AP and Halberds in the not so distant future.

Next thing to happen from SOE is that everybody will complain about AP and Halberd oneshots ... so SOE will nerf them, because complaints are a balance factor, since Infantry Wallets seem to speak the loudest.

Tanks are to spammy, yeah we actually should nerf the Tank spam, so that we can actually get Tanks instead of stationary assault guns with no role or purpose in the game.

Tanks, other than the Skyguard are useless and dead-weights for your empire 98% of the entire combat in the game ... and that is a fact.

Yup, that is pretty much the way everything goes, especially in a democratic system.

If you don't want the speed, or think it will help, then I don't know what. Greater alpha damage would just mean others tanks are less interested in engaging Vanguards at any range, even within their competency zones. The Prowler has to stop to fire reliably as well, and often has to adjust its aim in between individual shells when shooting at a distance or lose the said major damage per reload; in fact, since a Vanguard will generally move slower, shouldn't have less of an issue obtaining a steady barrel minimum speed?

Armor on the basic front armor on a Vanguard seems pretty flimsy compared to a Prowler - only a +5% difference. I think I could push for a +10% change, making an armored Prowler (63%+5%) only ever good as an unarmored Vanguard (68%) from the front.

I'm looking at AP Ordinance Damage Resistance and thinking the Vanguard isn't favored enough, but I'd hesitate to change the numbers since a few things count as AP Ordinance, at least two things which don't deserve to deal any less damage to their intended targets, Vanguards including.

Maybe; but, I'd argue much like Air versus Air, tank versus tank is also too enjoyable for that target group to get thrown to the wayside.

why the vanguard needed an 8 second shield:

1. Magriders are the vehicle version of C-4 fairies. Seriously, they will ambush you and then scale a steep hill and escape without retaliation. The Waterson Vanu are masters at this. There is ALWAYS a Vanu magrider lurking around behind enemy lines.

2. Prowlers are planetside's true artillery. A half dozen prowlers locked down on a ridge can destroy anything within 1000 meters. I remember losing Peris Amp once because two squads of prowlers parked on the ridge overlooking the base and destroyed everyone and anything on the walls or outside, forcing us all inside and letting the foot soldiers stroll in. We had two options when facing entrenched prowlers; get to cover and flank them, or charge them and pray our shield lasted long enough to take a few out before their upped rate of fire beat us.

The vanguard was never OP, at best we were a bigger and tougher, but slower and clumsier, lightning. They are intended for use in the same sense as the NC Max, get up close in their face and blast them. However that 2 sec drop in the shield limits our ability to continue doing this. This is only going to encourage vanguard drivers to continue being pansies, cowering and clogging up roads and choke points, instead of actually doing worthwhile armor charges.

Most new players join NC. Cause 'murica and freedom and shotguns.

I must have mentioned the word anchored 5 times in this thread already......but what does it matter if it's anchored ? its special ability vs special ability.

Well then do Magburn vs Vnaguard shield in 1v1. See how that pans out.

Clearly we get better balance by nerfing the least scoring, lowest performing, least interesting object in a class.

All we are seeing is that people simply cannot accept the shield ability- evidence be damned.

If people cannot accept the shield ability then scrap it entirely. Not only is it a boring special ability but there is nothing else special about the Vanguard. Magrider is omnidirectional and has boost. Prowler is double-barreled and has anchor mode. Vanguard has more frontal armor (boring) and a shield and still is the worst of the 3. Boring and under performing is never a good combination.

Magrider is pure evil.

Oh i have and it's weird how the mag can jump over clifs and even on buildings the Vanguard and Prowler can't....

Find the stats that say that Magburn is better than Vanny shield like you did for prowler

Stats reveal clearly that the Mag OutPerforms the Vanguard in kills both against tanks and infantry........But i guess that's not enough ?

This thread again ...

I can't be bothered.

only good think with this nerf is, no need to put more than 1 lvl in the ability ( sure you may want a less wait time, but most of the time 15 seconde will not change a lot in a vanguard, you will be dead after shield of or safe ( enemy dead, or hide aways)

i know that not a the good thread but i have seen people talking about the reaver and i was wondering, asside the little more dmg the weapon does, what else does it have? mosi is small fast and easy to fly ( agile), the scyth even more agile large from above but tin from the side.

So that must mean that Magburn is better in combat then Vanguard Shield right?

It means that the WHOLE package is better........Stop comparing only the ABILITIES.

It's fine to compare Racer 3 vs Racer 3 but not when you ignore stock to stock speed, nor the fact that many MANY more Mag's run Rival than Racer because our combat prowess depends on it.

Racer on a Mag is good for flanking, but will get rocked in head on encounters since their ability to mitigate damage through dodging is neutered.

Again, I'm not saying that the Vanguard is precisely where it should be... however don't expect the Main gun to get a lot better at killing infantry (it's slower RoF with higher alpha damage is part of it's design and is counter-productive to infantry killing power) and it can't get more infantry killing power via NS secondaries...

So as I mentioned before, since they're trying to bring the Vanguard in line for Tank-v-Tank combat, then they need to address it's infantry capability as well, and the best way to do that is by fixing the Canister secondary. With good aim it should not take more than 3 shots out to 150m. The best way to accomplish this is to make the Canister pellets not spread beyond a relatively tight maximum spread (look at BF's canister shell for example... however less damage on the C85 mod. because it's got a magazine and much higher RoF).

This way, in order to make the Vanguard better at fighting infantry you need to keep a 2/2 tank and significantly reduce your AV capability. The Kobalt would still be best for long range inf 'sniping' and the Fury for supressive effect, but the ES AI secondary should be the best general option like how Mag's use the PPA. An AV Mag with FPC and Saron is pretty bad at inf killing, even worse now that the Saron got AI nerfed (funny since Saron and Enforcer AV were about the same for inf killing, 2 direct hits to kill with similar splash damage and RoF for required accuracy).

In fact, at present, I think the Enforcer AV secondary is the best AI weapon available to Vanguard... The Canister is 2HK out to what, 30m? 50m now maybe? While the AV can 2HK out to infantry render range with perfect accuracy and very little drop.

Prowlers are in a hard place with the dual canon setup... they have so much power in their Drivers gun that their secondaries can't be as strong as Vanguards or Mag's who have more power in their secondary to make up for less from their main. It's almost always better to just pull another prowler than to jump in a gunner seat. When I play TR we all run solo prowlers and take a secondary to cover the main canon's weakness... either AA or an AI gun to swap to for extra Inf killing power. The problem is compounded when you look at the prowlers design... the Lockdown ability is actually really powerful, but does NOT pair at all with their ES AV secondary, and offers no benefit to the gunner at all no matter the weapon.


The shield nerf was needed and does not affect it's usefulness 80% of the time. When you pop it, if you're around other tanks, the enemy almost surely will stop firing at you (in fact, better for your faction if they DON'T since it's a free 2k HP on a 30 second timer). In a 1v1 it still practically guarantees a win by doubling your HP for the encounter (a 2/2 MBT specced for AV could potentially win vs a 1/2 Vanguard, though they'd probably need to dodge at least 1 main canon shot, and not miss themselves).

What it does is prevent a 2/2 Vanguard from killing 2-3 enemy MBT's when all by itself (and me and my gunner have done that a few times... though it was hard, and very close, we still took out 3 tanks thanks to the shield... 5 once back when the gunner could swap to driver seat to use their shield on a separate timer, damn that was a fun but broken bug).

I know it sucks to have your best toys nerfed. VS still want's it's Saron Sniper canon back. Prowler wants it's Anchored Railguns back. But these things are required for balance.

The only real reason those stats show what they show is the reduced capacity for Vanguard to kill infantry.

Prowlers have double barrel OHK for the driver. Mag's are better at dodging Inf rockets and have a rockin PPA and can fire it's OHK main canon while dodging with reasonably steady firing platform.

The Vanguard has the slowest RoF on the main canon (Still higher DPS than Magrider, but when the round OHK's infantry RoF is all that matters) and while the main canon is on a turret making it easier to use, it can't move and fire accurately reliably... meanwhile it's secondary AI focused weapon is also lacking.

Just fix Canister. Vanguard would be ermerzing at killing Inf with a good crew then.

It doesn't work that way.

If Canister was as good as the PPA for killing inf it would be.

It's just to range limited. It needs tighter spread... or explosive pellets... something.