Vote against Vanguard nerf

Find me stats of Vanguard kills by Prowler etc and i will believe you.

So essentially you are telling me that the Vanguard ISNT the best at Tank vs tank?
....... Yeah ok.

what those stats are telling you is that vanguards kill less vehicles per hour than either the prowler or the magrider, which i find a bit odd for the tank who is supposedly the "Best AV tank" but thats fine im sure if you ignore the numbers they will go away right?

and all of this comes onto the next part, you clearly have an issue fighting against vanguards, due to your inability to accept any form of statistic proving that your assumption and "gut feeling" is wrong , we can safely assume that you die to vanguards, and think they are OP,
when numbers point one way, and you point the other, we can safely assume that you are the anomaly, the issue. not in fact the vanguard.

maybe TR isnt the faction for you, as you seem to use vanguard tactics in a tank that isnt the vanguard.

and if all other options are exhausted then maybe its just a skill thing, i mean, a population falls under a bell curve. 50% have to be below average

If you think 150m is where you are in your element with lockdown you are wrong. If you think the vanguard can actually hit you while moving you are even more wrong. He still has to stop to shoot. And even with gear shifting he is going to be slow if he only has 2 secs to speed up and 2 secs to slow down (4 secs between shots). If you cant hit him while he is going 20 km/h with your velocity buff at 150m you are bad.

The shield allows a vanguard driver to do one thing and one thing only: Overextend a little bit and live.(if cover is within 6 seconds) Overextend to much and you still die. Just takes a little bit longer.
Now the shield is very good for players who like to play at closer ranges and move in and out of danger frequently because it allows them to stay in the "danger zone" a bit longer.
Personally I usually play the "arty" style. I'm the guy 500m away blowing up tanks. I'd take lockdown over the shield any day. After I clear out the enemy armor I move in closer to bombard the infantry defending the base. (bring the hate about me farming inf with my AP Vannie)

Hi,

The magrider is not worst platform.
As a Magrider, all your advantage resides in the patform it self and as such is passives ability. (stability, shape, hovering)
In the Vanguard it's in the utility slot in the name of the Vanguard Shield (and a bit in the stronger armor too).

All in all it's relatively balanced, this is just a asymetrical point of view and I like it the way it is.

Bye.

The VG platform is more than capable. People just have to stop being bad/learn how to drive it to make it shine.
What's holding people back is that these tricks are at times counter-intuitive, while the magrider is the opposite; Very intuitive.

The best KPH data we have is average vehicle KPH, which includes all vehicles (not just tanks). That data shows that the Magrider is best at killing other vehicles, while the Prowler and the Vanguard are equally good at killing vehicles.

We also have some MBT death statistics here. They're only about a week's worth, so it is a relatively small sample size. But at least it's probably a random sample.

Raw numbers of MBT deaths and percent of total MBT deaths
Vanguard by Prowler AP, 7512 (6.12%)
Vanguard by Magrider AP, 5156 (4.2%)
Prowler by Vanguard AP, 8236 (6.2%)
Prowler by Magrider AP, 7897 (5.94%)
Magrider by Prowler AP, 6762 (5.95%)
Magrider by Vanguard AP, 5691 (5%)

Don't concentrate as much on the raw numbers (they're skewed because the TR like pulling more MBTs than the the other two factions) but focus on the percentage of deaths.

1) Prowlers are significantly more effective at killing Vanguards than Magriders are. Probably because of the extra DPS of the Prowler.
2) Prowlers are also significantly more effective at killing Magriders than Vanguards are. Again, that extra DPS comes in handy.
3) Vanguards are better at killing Prowlers than Magriders are, though by the smallest margin of the three tanks.

Based on these observations it would seem that the pecking order of tank-on-tank battles would be Prowler>Vanguard>Magrider.

More conclusions:
4) Vanguards are less likely to be killed by other tanks' primary AP cannon (10.32%) than the Prowler (12.14%) or the Magrider (10.95%). However this really has nothing to do with the Prowler, but rather that the Magrider seems to be less effective against the Vanguard by a good amount. It also doesn't capture the fact that the Magrider AT secondary, the Saron, is significantly better at AT work than the Enforcer. For example, Sarons account for 3.38% of Prowler deaths, while the Enforcer only accounts for 2.63% (the Vulcan is barely worth mentioning at around 0.7%).
5) Vanguards are slightly more effective at killing Prowlers than Prowlers are at killing Vanguards. However this difference (0.08%) is barely worth mentioning. Pretty much the "I WIN" shield is a myth, because based on percentage of deaths Prowlers and Vanguards are equally good at killing eachother.
6) These statistics must also be interpreted in light of the fact that the TR like pulling Prowlers the most and the NC pull Vanguards the least. So there's not an equal number of Prowlers and Vanguards driving around. That's why the KPH statistics are a bit more useful, but sadly we don't have those just for MBTs.

But what you seems don't understand is that because the Vanguard is good in AP and bad in AI is in it's own an aymetric balance. That is the good thing.

Whenever there is anything that is "good," it must be nerfed until it is equally bad as everything else. The idea of taking something that is bad and making it good is unthinkable. No, it's the good things that must be changed

The end goal is to make everything so bad that nobody wants to play anything. When the last player leaves PlanetSide 2, then the SOE game designers can say "Mission Accomplished"

And I can reply you just the same way. People in VS/TR faction have to stop being bad/learn how to drive to make their platform shine.
You see, it's so easy. Hey all, Flag and myself have finally found a solution to all those discussions.

No thanks required, we'll both stay humble.

The L2P to compensate. Use it as less of a crutch.

That is just my problem with the ability. It is a crutch that once you have evolved beyond it saves your butt once a month. At that point any of the two other empire specific abilities is far superior.

None, none at all. There was something that could stand against the TR uber tank, and the devs simply cannot have that. ergo: nerf.


I love my prowler, but its not the one getting nerfed. Twice as many shots equals twice as many chances to land a hit. Could remotely be argued it was balanced if they did half as much damage, but hey do more than half damage. And you really can't argue against someones ability to aim is increased if they have more shots to place. Doesn't even take into account how much faster it fires and how much more when the tank is installed. Because thats the TR strong point, Like the defense is the NC strong point. Devs are just playing favorites.

Give me a link to the stats please you are referring to that show that Vanguard is terrible at anti vehicle duty, i want to be enlightened.
Im not disagreeing with stats, Im disagreeing with you.
Saying 'this is what the stats say' doesnt mean it does. I can say that too, doesnt mean i can back it up.

i said that it doesnt matter if it dodges or not to win.
My higher DPS is at the cost of not moving. Your super shield is at the cost of.......
oh wait, nothing. That seems pretty broken to me to be honest.
Vanguard shield doesnt really fit in with the other abilities.
Even ZOE although OP had a downside.

For the MILLIONTH time, the Vanguard shield is NOT OP.

you guys need it to make up for the majority of your tankers needing a crutch to make up for the fact the Vanny is a **** tank.
The problem though is its boring, and not thought out. There is no downside, no counter, nothing I can do when fighting it to negate it, I just have to wait.

'Waiting' as a counter is pretty lame from a gameplay perspective.

Buff the living christ out of the Vanguard shield but stop it being all encompassing.
Its BORING

... still not moving if I want to hit you.
I love all the people making a big deal out of the not moving thing. Like it is actually possible to move and hit targets consistently. Maybe it'll be a downside if they ever stabilize the turrets. Until then it's not even worth talking about. Especially since the velocity buff you get with lockdown makes it easier to hit moving targets.
The not being able to move is a non issue if you don't have a stabilized turret to begin with.

No its not.
Just imagine if the Mozzie was the AA ESF and the Reaver was the AG ESF?
How happy would you be with that?

Not at all I would think, because your empire determines not just your vehicle, but what you are equipped to fight.

There is a large difference between a faction being unique and a faction being limited.

Vanguard is not unique, it is limited.

I personally think the tanks should be made more like the vannie, not the vannie getting nerfed.

Like many have said, the vannie is the only actual tank in the game! give prowlers and mags a shield too instead of flop down and burning fart.

Agreed. People always argue 'But the Prowler is the fastest so it gives you a really good combat advantage'.

Yeah right, they act like we drive around at top speeds shooting everyone.

Both Vannies and Prowlers need to stay still to shoot with any consistency.

Thanks for agreeing to that.
And I agree with what you edited into the post after I read it. The ability is boring. And all but useless if you prefer long distance AV combat.
I'd rather have the ability to turn my main gun into a railgun for a shot or two. Or an actual railgun main cannon. (when are the NC finally getting railguns instead of shotguns, SOE?)

Thanks for the stats,
To be fair, we would also need to consider the secondaries into the kills since its not always the primaries that kill the tanks.
Unfortunately Vulcan or Halberds arent even on the list. so real conclusions cant really be drawn, only that the Prowler has the most damaging primary, which we already knew.

I find the amount of maggie suicides to be immensely amusing as well.

Whats also interesting is why the P2 AP does so much better than Titan AP on the Maggie (0.95%)
Yet the TItan does better than the P2 AP when fighting eachother.

Now i believe that at least part of this is because the Maggiw cops the full brunt of superior TR firepower whilst the NC shield can negate that, allowing it to perform better than the Prowler AP.

It would also explain why the maggie is so bad against Vanguards, their measely firepower cant down your healthpool before you kill them.

The Maggie and Prowler rely on either speed or firepower to take down the enemy. Strong but requires a skilled tanker.

Vanguards job is literally just to sit there and absorb it all whilst putting out as much damage as you can.

Prowler and Maggie have a much higher skill ceiling. (I cant pilot a Mag for ****)
But Vannies, all I need to do is press 'F' and i am as good as any other Vanny tanker.