Saron... nerfed Who can tell me at least one reason to use it?

How about being able to defend against the horde of infantry / AV turret / C4 fairies? Not everyone who runs AV setups wants to farm infantry. There are plenty more effective loadouts for that. 3/4/5 shots for the Saron (with flak armour) is ridiculous.

Planes get buffed, MBT gets nerfed, in an arena it was already struggling to find a proper place in the first instance.

Logic in this game design.
Vehicles to good against infantry (derp designed to be so)
Nerf their AI capabilites.

Vehicles to many (to easy to get EVERYWHERE)
WALLS EVERYWHERE!!!

Vehicles not fighting each other enough compared to hunting infantry.
EVERY frigging map is changed to have narrow valleys and bases every 2 minute walk you go.
And you can get a vehicle from most of them.....<.<

???????

Someone at SOE..
"hey i know a solution buff infantry vs Vehicles and then lets nerf vehicles vs infantry.*

This is a bloody circus sometimes...-w-

The Halberd looks like *** on anything but a Prowler.

Did you even think through your post? I dont see what you're trying to say here.
If I'm gonna solo a magrider, then I wont be having a gunner to use my secondary gun, so Saron is out of the context.
If you are suggesting me to switch seats and fire, then halberd is a better option simply because of the burst fire.

Besides, you do know that the Saron had its direct damage against infantry nerfed.
It is equally effective against a lightning.
They did buff the splash damage to compensate for the nerf.
Ofcourse it is not as good as the nerf, but nerfing it was the what SOE decided to do.

It's still better than the G30 Vulcan..

Since tanks have no machineguns for eliminating infantry, you forced to use tank cannons to killing infantry.
If tanks had at least mana turret analog as secondary, this post wouldn't appear.

If you used Saron, you should know that you forced to reduce your dpm manually to get small CoF.

After few tests I decided, that full certed Saron is worse than full certed Halberd.
Why? Because of:
1) Saron with manually reduced dpm have lesser dpm.
2) Halberd allow you to use hit'n'hide tactic, which is impossible with Saron.

After this "revelation", I started to search reasons to use Saron. And:
1) Large quantity of enemy infantry - I'm using Proton
1) Large quantity of enemy armor- I'm using Halberd
1) 50/50 ? Bingo! Saron a little better at killing infantry.
So, I decided I found Saron's niche. But now I can't understand. Why this nerf?
I have two ideas:
1) Nerf is mistake
2) Saron has no it own niche and should be revamped.

i would like to see a Saron overhaul as the current design does not play the the magriders strengths. it is only effective in CQC and any magrider will lose a 1 vs 1 fight with another MBT in CQC provided they lockdown or use shield.


The magrdier's niche is that is can go places other tanks can't and can fire on the move accurately.
Make the saron fit the magrider like it did back when it was a sniper.
then the magrider would snipe from safe distances, and it fit the magrider.

Most funny thing is - Saron better than halberd at 15-20 meters, but Magrider will loose fight against any other MBT. So, for me it pointless.

That's not the biggest problem; the biggest problem is the Halberd is ugly as sin

Every Magrider with one is an eye sore that will require a lot of TR and NC blood to remove the stain from the Magriders honor and now the number of Halbeards are going to increase...

The problem with the Prowler is anchor mode forces you to be long range artillery, unless you like being C4ed. The 2nd gunner is therefore idling for 95% of the time staring at targets way out of their range.

The magrider gets a long range 2nd gunner weapon, plus you get free reign of the terrain, so it's more fun to play the 2nd gunner.

Yes, it gets a long range 2nd gunner weapon.
It's called the Halberd.
It may not look good, but it gets the job done. Not as well as the old Saron, but it's the best we have.

nerfed a while ago... it's getting buffed now. More consistent accuracy at 100m.

Anyways, Saron just sux balls against inf now (well balance update)... this will make AV Mag's very susceptible to Inf, more so than any other tank. (Enforcer was just as good vs Inf FFS, though they're overnerfing that for AV now... wth?) Sure, we still have our main canon... fixed forward. We'll see a lot less AV Maggies and a lot more AI Maggies I think considering the # of tank fights.

I don't think Saron nor Enforcer needed any nerfs at all. Vulcan needed this Acc buff and probably needs better damage drop-off as well. It's like they want everyone to go Halberd :\

In the end, the need for AI tanks are going to go up. Make sure to roll with HEAT Lightnings (Cause Viper is getting MEGA nerfed into the ground) or PC+PPA Mags to kill all the squishies who aren't so squishy vs AV tanks

Good point. However, we are trying not to get involved with AV scenarios right now (I think this post was against AI nerf). I see too many Maggies equipped with Saron as their secondary AI weapon and murdering so many with impunity. The only AI/AV weapon that should be out there is Basilisk, which is also getting a nerf sooner or later, whereas the Saron is exclusive to the VS only and has much better firepower.

I think he means the main gun on the magrider is crap, and it is. The magrider main cannon is far and away the worst of all the tank main cannons, and the magrider depends on its secondary to make up for this. Throughout the game's history the magrider has had the best secondaries.

We can wait and see if the magrider starts underperforming after the nerf.
I disagree with the "Magrider depends on its secondary to make up for this"
Magrider depends on its mobility to make up for this. Generally speaking, a Prowler and Vanguard stop to shoot. The magrider moves to shoot.

His post did not make sense to me whatsoever.

My lightning depends on mobility to make up for its low armor, and it can't stand up to a typical 1/2 vanny/prowler either. I move and shoot with my lightning too via 3rd person and a piece of paper.
I clarified for you, most VS know what he means. Its undeniable that the magrider's turret is by far the worst. We would rather not wait to find out the obvious, thanks!

The strafing is cool, and makes up for any one of these downsides. Fixed turret, Lower velocity, Lower damage, lacking the prowlers insane DPS, making up for the vanguards natural armor bonus. It doesn't make up for everything, especially since its not fast enough to actually dodge enemy weapons at most ranges.

Cool bonus fact, magriders are more likely to run 2/2 then any other tank.

True balance.

I didnt say the magrider has a good turret in terms of stats.

You forgot to mention that the magrider has a stable turret.
Strafing also reduces terrain affect on the magrider.

Play NC, and try hitting a magrider with a rocket launcher and then a prowler.
I personally have had more success hitting prowlers than magriders.

Its kind of like this situation:-

A moving target will reduce the chances of the sniper landing a shot at him significantly, even though he is only moving at 5m per second, while the sniper is shooting at 650m/s.
A moving target with unpredictable movements will reduce it further more.
He can not outrun the bullets anyhow, but constant movement reduces the chances of him being shot.

Keep pressing A and D alternatively, and your shots of being hit is reduced significantly, and you can always take cover behind stuff.

You realise the reason we rarely have gunners is not because we dont need them, but because we cant get em.
I drive my prowler alot and I have a fully decked out Vulcan on top.
Now its good at close range sure, but with anchormode, I dont go close range, its a death sentence, so when Im bombarding a base from 200 metres and my gunner is waiting for a tank to come within 10 metres, guess how long it will take before he gets bored?

Gunners are rare for prowlers because they need to be impossibly patient and be ok with the fact they are going to have nothing to shoot at.

Vulcan has no versatility whatsoever. Its strong under 10 metres sure, but you almost literally need to be touching the enemy tank to get that.

Whenever I gun a Vulcan I can rarely even clip infantry or flashes at 20 metres because of its CoF.

Vulcan just isnt fun or rewarding, gunners always get in, then hop out 2 minutes later because there is nothing to do.

The reason I wont buy Halberd?
Because I saved up 1000 certs to buy this gun, another 600 or so on upgrades and about a month later PU2 happened....

I wont spend another 1500 certs and 12 hours of gameplay saving up to fix SOEs incompetence.
I am using the Vulcan until they fix the damn thing.
until then Ill just have to continue not having a gunner and farming infantry because I lose every 2/2 MBT fight i enter.

I mentioned it when refering to my lightning. when you drop to 3rd person your turret is stabalized, however this doesn't give my lightning a significant edge in most battles against prowlers and vanguards. This shows the extent of the power of mobility. Except at extreme ranges its not going to throw off a typical tanker's aim. In fact prowlers and vanguards reveiced a velocity buff last year specifically to ensure that they can hit strafing magriders.
Its not really like the situation you described at all. Comparing the hitbox of an infantryman's head to the hitbox of a MBT is misleading at the least.

The infantry story you mentioned is the saron problem in a nutshell. Our tank can't turn around and face a guy with a rocket launcher. We can't even see him without turning our back to the enemy. We depend on the secondary to have at least some ability to deal with the threat. A prowler who gets hit by a rocket turns and shoots him.
It is a very serious issue if we can not even handle a single renegade infantry with our secondary. the saron wasn't a great AI tool, but it did give us the ability to handle a lone heavy that has flanked the tank.

Your problems with getting gunners is one thing. Magriders need a gunner. IF we don't get one we aren't really functional. That is again what was meant by built around the secondary (as opposed to the primary weapon)

I am not denying that mobility is nice, but it can only be used as an excuse for so many other nerfs to the magrider.