a look at the new lynx and the new TR HC1 Cougar

Hang on a second, I thought you wanted a 167 Jag? (an "NC type" Jag as it were)

Amazingly that is pretty much what you are getting (and you're still complaining? ).

This gun has a high first shot recoil and accuracy stats that are not as good as burst only weapons. Don't expect much from this mode.

Users of this weapon will be annihilated by dedicated CQC carbines, while also being destroyed at range by weapons that aren't even classed as long-range (such as the Mercenary) due to its laughable damage dropoff. Being mediocre at a few things, in my mind, does not equal being overpowered. I can land consistent 3-5 round bursts with a TRAC-5 at 60-80 meters, each round doing the exact same damage as those done by the Cougar.

'Muh feelings' don't (and shouldn't) hold any weight when it comes to balancing a weapon; numbers, statistics, and performance do. Looking at the numbers that this weapon throws up, it's mediocre at best. It manages to have a slight DPS advantage over the Merc up to 15 meters (including SPA), then it begins to lose. Again, why is it overpowered?

I dunno it stands up pretty well (DPS-wise at least).


AC-X11 MAX DPS 1666 MIN DPS 1191
Merc MAX DPS 1670 MIN DPS 1250
Razor MAX DPS 1530 MIN DPS 1145

Cougar MAX DPS 1759 MIN DPS 1179


Honestly the TR-only-players complaining about this seem to be wanting (again) a Carbine that is just plain BETTER than the other factions.

From my first impression, the Lynx currently on PTS is a quite nice gun; seeing as how it can let out 9-10 bullets in just a short button press, I'm sure we'll be seeing an influx of 'Lynx is OP' threads soon.

Now as for the other gun... I think it kicks too much. Two-shot burst mode is nice, but it still kicks more than a 'medium-long range' weapon should. Other stats and attachements don't help it either. I'd like to have something else than CQC-focused weapon for once.

It's more than a "nice" gun!

It's a NS-7 PDW with 909 RPM (as opposed to 750) 40 rounds (as opposed to 30) and 450 bullet velocity (as opposed to 400).

It's very high RoF is going to make it great in really close combat (especially as TTKs at that range are tiny), an its high minimum damage (for a 125/909 weapon) is going to leave it very capable at medium ranges too (+107 DPS more than the GD-7F/Serpent at minimum bullet damage ranges).

Please make them look different from each other

Thanks for the confirmation, I hadn't looked up the numbers myself besides the Merc vs Cougar stats.

As for the complaining, I just had to call someone else out for complaining

Where were all these naysayers when the 7F/Snakeskin out-DPSed the Lynx (despite the fact that they still do, but whatever) and TR was moaning for their own version of those two weapons? We had to constantly hear, "10 EXTRA OVERPOWERED BULLETS!!!!" as the reason for why we were never allowed to have that particular carbine. Fine, we dropped the 10 extra rounds, dropped 3 tiers of minimum damage (lol @ that), and gained a 5.6 percent increase in DPS over another faction's carbine within about 20 meters and suddenly we're dealing with, "THIS IS OP THIS IS NOT TR FACTION TRAIT DON'T GIVE THEM THIS!!!!"

Where the hell were these people when TR was crying night and day about other factions being given our faction trait(s) with 698/750/800/845 rpm weapons? I sure as all hell hope that they weren't the ones chanting "10 EXTRA OP BULLETS!!!!!"

Ahem.

That said, I main heavy, but I definitely want to use these weapons once they hit live.

Of course if you didn't give it any downsides it would be OP. Here's what you don't seem to understand - there's some of us saying one thing should be improved, others saying a different thing should be improved, and others again saying a third thing should be improved. You (and a number of others) seem to be putting all these together and saying well if all of those improvements went ahead it would be OP. Nobody is asking for all of those improvements.

In fact, if they did improve the accuracy they would probably have to lower the rate of fire to balance it properly.

lmao

You absolute bloody idiot.

So you are being one of the biggest exponents in this thread of saying it's not only ok, but that it's too good. Glad that you've done enough research to see that it actually has a larger drop off than any other carbine. Every other 167 damage carbine drops to 125 at 70m. The cougar drops to 112 at 60m.

Any questions? Okay, great, glad we could clear this up.

I'm not sure how I feel about either weapon now.

The Lynx is throwing lead down range a lot faster, its increased its spammy... ness? by quite a bit but at the same time its lowered its damage per magazine quite substantially. What its done is taken a weapon that was perfectly capable of 3 kills per magazine on an average day and made it really only good for two before a relatively lengthy reload is required. As far as its accuracy, recoil and bloom go its not too bad though. Overall it's a substantial nerf to functionality in order to make the weapon a little more unique. It's going to shred people in CQC hipfire spamming matches, but only one or two at a time if you cant make every rounds a decisive head shot.

The new 167 carbine feels odd. I think it will punch hard in the situations where we (JUGA) spend most of our time fighting, but its severe range limitations and surprising lack of accuracy are a little off putting. It's a carbine designed for CQC but with a low ROF and punchy 167 rounds. It feels more like the NC's 167 SMG than a the mercenary. It's got very slow ammunition (450m/s iirc) and its damage drop off goes all the way down to 112@60m just like all our other 143 carbines. Using this thing at any range is going to be putting you at a disadvantage by way of ROF, accuracy and magazine capacity. If I had to label it I would say its an NS11C running heavy ammo with more recoil. Once again, if you can nail head shots consistently and don't panic spray this thing will do you favours... at the right range. Despite being touted as a mid range carbine, this thing is still outperformed by the AMC and NS11C at mid range due to their superior accuracy.

Ultimately the skill cap for the Lynx has been raised substantially, and the new 167 carbine will punish noobs while making vets work for good results. Inaccurate, spammy and ineffective at range. Same TR weapon drawbacks in two new packages.

this ^ seriously, NC have the best looking guns, must cooler than other factions. ;_; I just hate their box/cardboard armor lul, except for the infiltrator.

I DON'T CARE, GOTTA FREAK OUT. THAT IS A 167 CARBINE WITH ALS, SP AND...

I agree with what you say, except, that the test Lynx is easier to use, if you are only going for one kill, like most low skill players.

On the other hand, if you like killing lots and lots of ppl with your LA, then the new Lynx is a tiny downgrade since, as you say, you are losing around a mag worth of dmg(without ammo belt).

Note, I am not saying the cougar is necessarily a bad gun. I expect it to still be a fairly decent weapon.

The problem is that it is designed to be used in the exact same range and situations as every other TR carbine. It completely ignores every reason that most of TR was asking for a 167 weapon in the first place. We wanted a medium range weapon similar to the Mercenary (probably not quite as good since it is more the NC style of weapon). Instead we get yet another CQC carbine. In fact, because of it's rate of fire it is worse at medium-long range than the carbines we already have.

Looking at the DPS if the Cougar hadn't dropped 3 tiers of minimum damage it would have been.

AC-X11 MAX DPS 1666 MIN DPS 1191
Merc MAX DPS 1670 MIN DPS 1250
Razor MAX DPS 1530 MIN DPS 1145

Cougar MAX DPS 1759 MIN DPS 1316 (not 1179)

Again this would have just made it plain BETTER.

It looks pretty balanced (or rather on the strong side of balanced) as it stands, certainly it seems like it'll eclipse the AC-X11 (which is a close-medium range generalist Carbine too - it's fairly so so at longer ranges, the Razor is much better) and stand up well to the Merc in those ranges at least, but of course has difference attachments (SPA and AdLas) which will actually make it much better than the Merc in close to close-medium ranges.

Oh, I personally am not asking for any changes; I think it's fine as-is. It's unique and seems like it'll be fun to use, that's why I want it.

The thing is the NC have nothing like the Jag (the GD-7F and Serpent have always been Lynx equiverlents), nor indeed like the new Lynx really (neither do the VS) although the GD-7F/Serpent are clearly the closest to this new Lynx weapon (which is basically a SMG with Carbine traits ).

I expected it to be a T5 AMC type weapon myself, but this version is in no way a weak weapon, as far as I can see. It's basically something along the lines of the Jag (close medium range generalist Carbine), only with 167/632.

It looks more than competitive in raw DPS terms, and whilst the Devil is always in the detail, I can't remotely see this being a poor weapon (whether it'll be better than the Jag I dunno, but then the Jag is pretty much at the top to begin with).

AC-X11 MAX DPS 1666 MIN DPS 1191
Merc MAX DPS 1670 MIN DPS 1250
Razor MAX DPS 1530 MIN DPS 1145

Cougar MAX DPS 1759 MIN DPS 1179 - if it only dropped 2 tiers of minimum damage then MIN DPS 1316


It has to drop 3 tiers or it would just be plain better.

Indeed! It looks like getting killed by it will feel like a shotgun OHK. On one hand, I will probably hate to be on the business end of the gun when playing my alts; on the other hand, I will probably love to inflict the dakka when playing TR. Knowing how things go in this game, I'm afraid it will get a serious nerf though...

On a more positive note, if I remember things right, the gun is pushing maximum ROF value higher than it ever was - if it succeeds we may see weaponry with even more ROF and it will finally become possible to make guns more different from each other.

I think it'll miss a nerf (unless it is seriously outperforming when Live, of course) as it'll likely be in the same ball park as the old Lynx/GD-7F/Serpent only with a new tilt to it.

I just don't get that a lot of people (not you) are complaining about it when it seems like it will be 1) Great & 2) exactly what the TR has been asking for since the GD-7F & Serpent existed.



I think that the "maximum" RoF was around 910 RPM IIRC, so not sure if the new MCG is going to be faster than that because they've fixed the engine limit, or if (as others have suggested) they are going to somehow tie 2 guns into 1 or something to get around it.