I recently took up playing as the engineer, and i was wondering is i should use C4 or AV-mines for taking out enemy armor. I usually play a a medium range support with the AMR, but i would like to be able to defend myself against tanks, and also be able to sneak up on stationary targets like a sunderer or the like. I´m not quite sure if there is a damage difference between the two. Thanks in advance for your responses Thompson
They use different damage resistance values to determine the damage dealt. For example, a full-hp sunderer with no defense upgrades equipped will survive two C4 detonating right on its hull - even if only barely - but will blow right up if two tank mines explode underneath it. The very same full-hp sunderer but equipped with max level of mineguard will easily survive five tank mines (that's the maximum amount of them a single engineer can have deployed at any one time) but will still recieve the same amount of damage from two blocks of C4. Blockade armor will help to absorb the damage done by C4 a little bit better (I can't remember the exact number of C4 blocks that are required to off a full-hp sunderer with max blockade, but four bricks will definitely do it), but will not add one whit of protection against tank mines. It's about the same for tanks; only significant difference is two charges of C4 can kill one immediately and they can't raise resistance against it by any upgrade. Not sure against aircraft, you'll have to ask someone else. Also, tank mines need to be below the vehicle for their explosion to deal damage and the vehicle should be moving for them to trigger automatically; you can always help them with that by hitting them with some bullets or a grenade explosion (preferably a sticky one) though. Perhaps the biggest difference (at least currently) is that C4 disappears the moment you repsawn, but tank mines remain where they are until you either log out (crashing counts) or switch continents - barring any unfortunate accidents with bullets and explosions, of course. Ergo, 'spiking' AI mine traps - by which I mean placing a tank mine within the damage radius of an AI mine to add some extra punch when the AI one triggers - is only feasible with tank mines. C4, despite being certed for each of your classes individually, uses the same stack, so the risk to run out if you didn't happen to have much luck with resources during a session is much higher; tank mines on the other hand are only used by your engineer. Personally, I would suggest getting tank mines first and C4 second (just in case you'll find yourself in a dire need to blow up something but all your mines are already tied up elsewhere). The mine pouch suit upgrade is, IMHO, too costly for the meagre benefits it provides, so I wouldn't recommend getting it unless you have nowhere else to spend certs in.
Both work well, so its really up to your play style. C4 will take out most vehicle w/ 2 bricks (will put a sundy in critical state), and is flexible to be used against infantry. The downsides being you have to sneak up on your enemy, they disappear if you get killed, and the cost of 100 resources a piece. Tank mines will take out vehicles in 2-3 mines, but can be placed in advance and left unattended for the eventual kill when someone happens to drive over them. They don't disappear when you die, so a suicide rush can still take out the vehicle if it moves on or someone else can set them off. They are cheaper, at 75 resources a piece, and you can carry 1 more per level. The downsides being that they aren't as useful vs anything else (you can shoot them to detonate, or combine w/ C4 or AP mines for a bigger explosion), and setting up defensive mine fields will burn resources for potentially no pay off. Personally, I prefer tank mines in general. You can still take out targets on a rush by running up and placing them under the vehicle, then detonating them by shooting or throwing a grenade on it (sticky grenades make great fuses). Its actually faster to throw down 3 mines and a grenade than to place 2 C4 on the vehicle, and you get the benefit of the mines staying there if you get killed, so they have to disarm the mines if they want to move. C4 does have its uses, but I find myself carrying it for base assaults, when I can move to take out armor, or set up a trap for max crashes. Another great option is the AV turret. No dedicated AV engi is complete without it.
Tank mines are more cost effective, and the first rank gives you 2 mines.... enough to kill any ground vehicle without mine guard. The key here is that mines deploy faster then C4, but they have a few seconds before they arm. Against sunderers (which tend to remain stationary when deployed), you drop 2-3 mines and THEN throw a grenade or side arm (draws faster) to manually detonate them. If you throw the nade first, the mines won't arm in time. Against tanks, just drop 2 mines behind them and get their attention. Most will move out of reflex, setting the mines off. For anchored prowlers, manual detention is preferred as they won't move. C4 would be better for wide area traps as fully certed + utility pouch lets you put down 4 total. Staying alive to detonate can be a problem though.
Yeah, I came up behind an enemy prowler, went to deploy my AV turret, and realized I had my AI turret equipped, I went up, and dropped 2 mines about 5 meters behind him. Note, this was back when mines were bugged and didn't set off other mines, otherwise I would have gone with the 2 mines + grenade combo. I ran back next to a tree, deployed my AI turret, and unloaded a burst into his backside before jumping out and running behind a tree. The prowler predictably backed up right over my mines. Cue maniacal giggling. PS, you can combine an AI mine with an AV mine to make for a super AI mine that will kill non-flak maxs.
I prefer Tank Mines, I get shot too often trying to sneak up and place C4 (wherever). Tank mines are a great 'place-and-forget' weapon. If I place C4 somewhere successfully for a remote det, now I have to worry about a) not dieing#1, and secondly, having to monitor enemy movement around my C4-again without getting shot doing it. IoW, I find C4 generally, is a very distracting, while mines, I can just drop them, and run off-do whatever I want without having to worry about detonating them at some precise optimum moment.
In addition to active sundie/tank hunting, mines are great as an additional cert printer. Redeploy as engie to a border outpost, go to bridge leading to enemy controlled outpost, drop mines. Redeploy as whatever you want somewhere else. At some point, you'll get a random vehicle kill, some player kills, and certs. That's your clue that you should take a few minutes to go deploy some new mines. Sometimes, you bag a full-ish sundie. It feels like xmas when those kills just don't stop popping.
I find that c4 is better on either LA or HA. The former due to the extra mobility and the latter as a flanking tank hunter (two c4 and a rocket kills most Sundies and careless tanks.) Tank mines can be good but as outlined by the previous posters you often need to put a bit of thought into their use. Anti-personnel mines are also handy as an Engineer when defending a point.
I see it like this Proxy for infantary C4 in the middle of both AT Mines for vehicles Pick what works best for your playstyle.
Tank mines first, AI mines second, C4 later if you really want them. Thats just my opinion for the engineer. Besides, im curios if someone have tried this setup for 'ghetto-C4'? I havent myself yet, but im tempted to try it out. Tank mines and crosbow with explosive bolt. Sneak (or rush like crazy) upon a max or group of enemies. Drop tank-mine, pull out crosbow with exp. bolt and detonate your mine with the bolt? ---> Dead group of enemies? Im curios if you could do this just as fast as detonoate the c4? C4 takes forever to detonate :/ If it can be pulled of somewhat reliable then you have some advantages with this setup: Cheaper than c4 You can run with 3 tank mines (making 3 different attacks) without the utility pouch, and only 2 c4
Only have C4 on LA and got no plans to change it anytime soon If I manage to get to enemy sundy with Engi, its faster and more effective to just drop a few mines, either I detonate them, or they do
i enjoy tank mines... i was at a biolab fight where tanks and sundies were ramming around at high speeds farming infantry then ducking back inside to repair. i placed three tank mines in the road, and 30 seconds later got a sundie kill, then did the same thing a couple of minutes later. after that they stopped hot rodding around
Personally I would recommend mines. MANY people run blockade armor making C4 only damage not kill. Practically no one runes mine guard. That said recently I saw a friendly LA drop C4 on an enemy tanks but die before popping them. I got the kill by shooting his C4 with my gun. I laughed so hard I had to redeploy so I could clear the tears from my eyes.
AT mines make more sense for most engy players. You're better off certing C4 on your LA and/or medic. Its worth mentioning taht sticky grenades works well in conjunction with AT mines for assassinating sunderers.
