About killing Aircraft with Skyguard

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Alyz, Mar 13, 2014.

  1. Botji


    I cut away a lot of it because this is what I am going to be focusing on... As much as I want some buff to the Skyguard I feel you have a biased and simply put, wrong view of it.

    Your numbers are off, if you cant hit a Galaxy with more than 7 shots even at render range its not actually the Skyguards fault. Galaxies are slow enough and large enough that you can fairly easily land shots on them even when moving, that also applies to Liberators but to a lesser degree(ofc).

    So why is the Galaxy/Liberator accuracy you listed is wrong?
    Against a stationary ESF in VR you need something like 42-44 shots from 300m away, meaning you miss 10-12 shots at that range(76,1-72,7% accuracy) and at 500m you need just about 50 shots(giving you a 64% accuracy) so a Galaxy at render range would still give you more than 10% accuracy and def higher than 50% on a Liberator at 200m.

    The only aircraft I feel the Skyguard needs a buff against is ESFs since they are too fast and hard to nearly impossible to work with the TTK against them. Having to fire for 5-7 seconds even under very good conditions is more what can be considered a plausible TTK but the ESF can simply move such a large distance in those 5-7 seconds that its unlikely that you will be able to "use" that TTK on them before they are gone.

    So yeah, I think the Skyguard needs some buff but not against Liberators or Galaxies aside from that the relation between Liberators and Skyguards should be more like... A Liberator should never want to engage a Skyguard because it would be too risky but at the same time be tanky enough so like now it can usually survive a lone Skyguard(Simply, the Skyguard shouldnt die to a Lib either.. as the norm).
  2. teks

    Perhaps you haven't used the skyguard recently. Theres been some big buffs to it, and some small ninja buffs.

    I say this because in my experience within optimal range the TTK against in ESF is under 3 seconds. They literally melt. On top of this the bullet spread and splash ensure that with basic skills leading a target a skyguard can hit an esf easier then any other weapon in the game.

    Against libs. A skyguard should die to a lib 1 on 1. A dalton/shredder lib is an AV Aircraft with 2-3 crew. A skyguard is an AA vehicle with 1 crew. They are both counters to each other, and thus it should get messy when they meet. A skyguard who gets the jump on a low-flying lib can just about kill him in 1 clip. 2 skyguards vs a lib will most likely win any engagement.
    Also gotta consider experience and upgrades. 2 BR 100 players in a fully upgraded lib vs. some scrub in a stock skyguard isn't a fair comparison.

    The only upgrade skyguard needs has nothing to do with the weapon. If lightnings could change loadouts from vehicle bays most the skyguards problems would vanish.
  3. Botji


    I use it fairly often and I know for a fact that you will never kill a ESF under 3 seconds unless its damaged.




    Its just impossible to do it, Skyguards fire 8 shots per second and you need 32 hits to outright kill one, 31 hits leave it on fire but it explodes in like 1 second so often just as good but the time difference is minimal. In 3 seconds you can fire 24 shots, not enough to put the ESF on fire.

    One thing though, I have used the wrong numbers for the 300m range, the ranges are more like this(I used 400m values on the 300m range).

    300m ~ 37 shots
    400m ~ 43 shots
    500m ~ 50 shots


    The reason I think one Skyguard should be more or less equal to a Liberator is because the Skyguard is much more specialized than the Liberator. So even though it might be 2 or even 3 people in the Liberator they can do pretty much anything, kill aircraft and ground targets while the Skyguard is mostly helpless against ground targets aside from very close range infantry or "harmless" things like a uncrewed Sunderer.
    • Up x 3
  4. Mostadio

    You and I need to team up some time. Your style is very comparable to mine. When I'm out in the open I even turn lumifiber on just to attract ESFs.
    • Up x 1
  5. Mostadio

    I run max zoom but I never use it when engaging aircraft. I usually use it just to see wtf is going on over there -----> You are correct about zoom, it limits your field of view (sometimes where you would need to shoot at wouldn't even allow you to see the ESF!) and it changes all the equations when it comes to leading targets.
  6. GardenOfSilver

    I've been trying to run my Skyguard some more lately, and I still don't like it particularly much. In fact, I more or less quit playing in frustration after pulling it. Big NC airforce pounding out assault, tanks going down left and right so... I fall back, pull the Skyguard and roll up. I'm not the only one, we got three Skyguards rolling now.

    So yeah, fire up the guns. I got a bit of a new appreciation for how the Skyguard does, it doesn't actualy seem to take much to bring a ESF down to smoking if you can range in on them propperly. Still, they turn and your aim is really thrown off, I've found, and they can run out of range. The later part comes from being very hesitant to actualy drive that Skyguard in anywhere under a dozen ESF and a pair (or trio) of Liberators. My ground experience yells at me that it's certain death.

    Still, in a matter or minutes we've actualy driven off every single aircraft. I got a mighty 763 score from that, a ESF assist. Afterwards it was just kinda sitting there and trying not to be bored and not get shot by anything on the ground. Then, death by Vanguard becaus the damned thing is worthless unless there's any aircraft. As soon as we finished capturing the station I logged off in annoyance.

    I admit, I'm not good with a Skyguard. I'm not certain I'll actualy get a lot better either considering the state of mind it puts me in when driving it. Did I actualy do any good for my team? Deffinately, we cleared the sky of enemy ESF and Lib's. Was I in any way satisfied by it? No, not at all. It's not like sneaking a AP Lightning up to a bunch of enemy Sunderers and taking them all out, that's rewarding and FUN.

    Can I appreciate the point of view of ESF and Liberator pilots some more? Yes, I supose I can, now when I'm actualy taking a good long look at the effectiveness of my Skyguard with a driver of my skills (at least as far as AA is concerned). I still hate the Skyguard though, easily the worst ground vehicle in the game. The WORST. It's big and obvious, and for it's size and speed it's lightly armored and while you CAN put the hurt on aircraft it's a complete waste for anything but that (and when you got three Skyguards no sane pilot will indeed get near it, so what then?).

    So, Skyguard? Yes, it's actualy effective at combating air. Is it in any way shape or form 'worth it' on a subjective level. Not really. Maybe the day I can change loadouts on my Lightning it's worth it. Or maybe if I can deconstruct it for all resources and reseting the timer.

    Would certainly not mind feeling more secure actualy taking it up to it's effective range either - there really need to be a resonable deffensive option against enemy aircraft for this thing.
  7. Botji

    Saved some video of me playing the Skyguard but for some reason I only got like 3 minutes instead of the 5 I have it set to save so quite a lot of it is missing :[

    It shows one of the best parts of being a Funguard... and why I use the loadout I have!
    Parts of what is missing is me killing stuff, some coming back for revenge and things quickly escalated from there.




    I hardly ever use the redeploy to cheat someone of my death but I wanted to tease them with it since they tried so hard... and I didnt really feel they deserved it :p
    • Up x 1
  8. Vostogon

    Took Two (three?) ESF's and a lightning to kill you and even then they had trouble. Liberator could do that in one pass and easily at that.

    So.... Skyguard vs ESF's relatively balanced. Skyguard vs Liberator? Not even close.
  9. Lightwolf

    I don't recognize your name. Fly often?
  10. Vostogon


    I pretty much play everything, why do you ask?
  11. Hoki

    Which for all practicality and in practice, one skyguard is a target to be surgically removed by any competent lib gunner, two skyguards are a deterrent.

    Lets be adults and acknowledge that a single skyguard is not the area denial that pilots like to pretend it is.
    • Up x 3
  12. lawn gnome

    i drive a skyguard as my primary vehicle and when i am playing solo i spend the majority of my time in a skyguard. i don't know where you are getting your numbers from, but when i am leading ANY target properly even tiny mosquitoes at max range (max render distance in my graphics settings) my hit rate is far more than 10%, it is probably closer to 50% in the worst case. killing aircraft in close is obviously easier but i still regularly murder aircraft out at max range. liberators are chewy but they are also slow and large targets.

    you do have a point about galaxies, BUT the problem before was that the general population did not realize how much of a threat they were and very few shots were fired at them. now however i rarely see an enemy gal with fewer than 3 streams of tracers flying at it. galaxies are a like sunderers now EXCEPT they are much larger and usually in a place where EVERYONE can see and fire at them.

    the only thing i would like to see is an increase in the up angle on the skyguard gun so it can aim up more than it does, but that is not a huge deal because it can easily be accounted for by staying next to a small slope or change in incline of some kind so that the cone that can't be fired at can be adjusted until your target is in an angle you can fire on.

    we had the precise skyguards in beta and they murdered everything making aircraft obsolete entirely.
  13. teks

    You need to upgrade your lightning. The fact that you didn't mention upgrades hints that you probably don't have them. The skyguard isn't a vehicle, its a weapon, and its only as good as the vehicle its mounted on. Theres a world of difference between a stock lightning and an upgraded one. The biggest difference that comes to mind after reading your experience is racer 3 and stealth. That whole "my ground experience yells at me that it's certain death" goes out the window when your invisible on the minimap and can outrun any vehicle in the game. At that point you can pretty much go where you please.
  14. teks

    See above.
    to summarize.
    NEWS FLASH Stock lightning loses to two BR100 lib pilots.
    I don't really find that to be an issue...
  15. Hoki

    Literally impossible. Just going by the spread of the skyguard vs the size of a mossie at render distance.
    • Up x 2
  16. Hoki

    Its funny how that same standard can't be applied to ground vehicles, cause that would be a tragedy. Any high-skill "spikey" damage to air had to be nerfed into the ground.

    SOE's idea of a deterrent is just adorable.
    • Up x 2
  17. FBVanu

    You nailed it, being a Skyguard driver can be a very lonely existence..
    It's 99% boredom and 1% sheer panic.. it's definitely not for everyone..

    You can get infantry with it, even the occasional 1/12 sundy.. as that Skyguard packs a real punch into the rear of a Sundy
    It is not a cert machine.. you are NOT there to earn XP by the bucket..

    The Skyguard is there to help and protect all other forces from enemy air, without earning any reward or even to get so much as a thank you from any friendly Libs, whose lives and butts I saved..
    But I know that before I pull it, ....
  18. Botji


    No not exactly, if a Liberator comes at me like they did from the front and not even trying to hide their plans I will take them down too since it gives me enough time to fire close to a full mag into them before they really get into a position to fire on me and when they do they are so damaged that I can usually just move about a bit while killing them.

    Problem is if the Liberator isnt so obvious and comes in from where I dont expect it or can use cover to get closer so I cant fire a full mag into them before they are close then.. yeah, not much of a chance(and a Lib can keep trying until they can get that attack on me but not everyone has the patience for it).


    I want to argue Stealth with you... I dont think its worth dropping the magic nanite repair for it!

    Stealth is only good if you want to hide or make hit and run attacks but I find myself much too "stationary" as a Skyguard for Stealth to really matter. Once you attack or kill someone they know where you are making Stealth worthless, no?

    On things like AP tanks I can see its uses as you can make a quick kill on someone and then move off, the time you show up on the minimap from shooting is very short but a Skyguard fires in such a long duration that anyone you would be hiding from with Stealth will still see where you are the moment you open fire, the long stream of tracers and loud sound also kinda gives you away.

    My point is after the first few kills with Stealth "everyone" will know you are there and stuff like in my video happens, the tanks start coming in and you have to run away. Auto repair is always very useful imo and I dont have much problem staying hidden from aircraft(unless I already alerted them that I was in the area) since it seems most people are kinda blind and/or operate on a "if it doesnt shoot me its not an enemy" kind of thing, so getting aircraft to come too close isnt that hard even without Stealth.



    As above, if the Liberator lets the Skyguard have a clear LOS as its coming in a lone Skyguard is a deterrent or even a killer... but I agree its not how a lot of pilots make it out to be. If they play half decently it can be close to impossible to do anything as a Skyguard aside from plinking on them and giving them rep xp.

    It feels kinda strange to "defend" the ability of the Skyguard for once. I do think the Skyguard needs some buff but I dont think people should say its terrible either. Its far from what most pilots say it is but its also not that bad that you cant hit a target at long range or dont have a chance against them, its just that its usually up to the target if you will be able to kill them or not(or if they kill you) wich imo is not how it should work.
  19. lawn gnome

    or maybe you just suck at leading targets. was just on tonight playing my skyguard against TR and the mosquitoes flying around off in the distance were taking far more than 7 hits per clip. there were more than 7 shots hitting during the time it took me to reload. have you taken into account the radius of the flack? flack adds about 16 meters to the diameter of all aircraft vehicles (up to 8 meter blast radius on each shot). the explosion damage is small (around 30% of standard close range damage out to 6 meters) but it builds up quickly when combined with the skyguard rate of fire.

    i don't know what your problem is but i consistently rip aircraft out of the sky. at worst i drive them away and they are afraid to hang out anywhere near me. i regularly beat down enemy air superiority myself with little or no help. any fighter brave/stupid enough to line up an attack run is disposed of quickly. there are only a handful of liberator pilots on my server that are skilled enough to worry me. skyguards are fine, learn to lead your shots. if you can't hit a target 16 meters (at least) across it is not a problem with the weapon.

    for reference 16 meters is more than 52 feet or for you football fans more than 17 yards. most of these targets are effectively a fifth of the size of a football field or larger. the skyguard spreads, but it doesn't spread THAT much.

    if you EVER fail to hit a galaxy or liberator at any range that is pure operator error. PEBKAC (Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair)
  20. lawn gnome

    and just to put one final nail in the coffin my overall hit rate with my skyguard is currently 24%. (go ahead and check my stats, i only play as skyguard with my lightning, i have a link to my profile right in my signature) that 24% percent includes suppression fire to support base assaults firing at infantry that are jumping around next to me or in cover. (infantry are frigging hard to hit if they aren't dangerously close) along with all of the aircraft that i murder at all ranges. all of the test fire i use to find the proper lead on flying targets (the best way is to hold down the trigger around where you think you need to lead and then sweep back and forth slowly until you start getting the hit notification).

    i am not even remotely conservative or careful with my shots. in fact i have invested extensively in increased ammo capacity for my tank to the point that i hold a total of 1400 rounds and i regularly use all of them. if i find an ammo sunderer i follow him and guard him like my first born. i average 94 shots per minute in my skyguard according to the official stats in my profile (more than 1.5 shots per second on average game play) with more than 600,000 rounds fired and more than 149 hours of play time (all of this is in my official planetside stats as kept by SOE).

    i invested in the 2.5x zoom so that i can properly identify aircraft that 'Q' can't or won't reach. the flack bursts don't even render for the vast majority of my targets (too far away). 10% accuracy is a load of crap.
    • Up x 1