Liberator Role? AA? or AG?

Lol, you misunderstand my post. I was implying that if an ESF is stupid around a Liberator, it's going to die a painful death. And the argument "Muh Counters" is not sufficient to have Liberator A2A nerfed.

Yeah,

Honestly Its not the health and armor or even dmg a lib has that makes it op its the mobility.

It can make a passing run and get behind the next mountain before you can get it to half health unless you just pull unholy amounts of AA. And its to maneuverable, Its a gunship it shouldn't be able to dogfight esf's, It can fight them and shoot at them but it shouldn't be able to dogfight.

And lets be honest, No aircraft short of the Gal should be able to shrug of a 150mm High velocity armor piercing tank round. The impact force alone should at least spin the thing around.

well forumside has to nerf something, though the shredder is the next "oh it's too all around weapon" I guess if it got an av nerf that wouldn't be the worst/sort of undeserved

I wouldn't argue an av nerf if the damage falloff was removed

No agreed Ganjis, Libs are in a good spot... personally, Im only talking about minor tweeking, in general I love PS2 just the way it is, and mostly just like to talk about it.

nice flying Iam... but, those Lib's aren't exactly... umnnn... what Im talking about, I'd say they were kinda tame? No offense...
It's weird thou, alot of the OSK libs have all gone shredder, so ... in general... in the air... at least in the past day or so... Libs have been almost... sadpanda?..

nerfs? meta? mercy??? hackers banned??? not sure... anywho... here's to hoping any balance changes are fair, minor and infrequent.

I say keep everything as it is but prevent Liberators from rolling too much (or disable the belly gun when they do so, like it was in PS1) to instaDalton ESFs attacking from above. Stupid ESFs dying because they ended up beneath a Liberator are OK, but the belly gun being used to kill or even just deter aircraft that have a good angle is ridiculous.

Also, ESFs should be the main counter for Liberators, and in exchange Libs should take less damage from all G2A weapons natively (not by spending 1500 certs in composite armor). There is really no need for Liberators to have any A2A role if not for self-defence, leave A2A to A2A-equipped ESFs; at the same time, it doesn't make much sense that a gunship can be repelled by ground AA as easily as it happens now - 2 burestermaxes are enough to keep Liberators away from an area if not outright kill them.

Now of course, this brings up the problem that an ESF with a multi-purpose loadout could be too effective against everything. To fix this, Liberators could get additional resistence against rocket pods, Hornets, AI noseguns and maybe default noseguns, and in exchange take quite a bit more damage from Coyotes and A2A lockons and maybe rotaries (although rotaries should only get a smaller damage buff). The idea here is to more markedly define what targets an ESF can engage with a given weapon, so that if you want to be effective against Liberators you MUST give up most of your A2G potential. This way, secondaries become crucial when engaging Liberators and force pilots to choose whether they want to be effective against air or ground.

There shuld also be a more marked distinction between a Liberator and an A2G ESF. An A2G ESF should be a source of powerful but short bursts of damage in the form of rocket pod runs and other quick attacks, after which it is forced to retreat due to flak damage, while Liberators should be able to persist in an area and deal continuous damage to the ground until repelled by A2A fighter jets.

Imposing a angle/wep angle limit will just make it worse as long as flight ceiling mechanics works they way they do now. You will end up with even more libs sat at flight ceiling smacking close by esf. Possibly letting ESF go a tad higher than libs & gals AND DEFINITIVELY making the skylimit gradual rather than a brick wall would help here.

Also 3 esf vs a 3/3 lib is a definitive win for the esfs unless massively outskilled.

I think the "problem" (i don't see this in itself as a problem tbh) with libs going AA is mainly due to how hard is is to stay live for any meaningful length of time while going against ground targets. Another big contributor, i think, is how fun it is to go AA as a lib crew. If you go up against some good opponent/s, its one of the most tense demanding skill testing things you can do in this game.

On the flip coin, libs are devastating to small and or disorganized ground troops (but then otoh just abt anything is). All it takes is 2-3 communicating lockon heavys or AA maxes to create a rather big no-fly zone for quite a few aircraft.

As for the libs role? A air vehicle with gunz on. Don't overcomplicate it, its a effin game

I don't want the shredder and TB nerfed so much as I want ESF resistance increased against them.

how are you even gonna ask for a nerf on a defualt weapon, the **** guys man up and fight the odds, try being connery TR.

Libs are A2E

Air to Everything

If 3 ESF get killed by one Lib they are not of good ability. And if those 3 good ESF work together, the Lib is dead before it can do anything.

See, posts like this ae the problem why no Lib pilot takes the critique serious. For example, using the TB against ESF takes quite a lot skill unless the ESF pilot doesnt know how to fight Libs or is unaware. The veloccity of the TB is horrible and at close distance ESF are able to out maneuver the nosegun of even the best Lib pilots. You basically just ccomplain about all weapons the Lib has that can kill ESF.

But a Lib needs to be able to fend off ESF or you can save the resources.

I disagree. I should also state that the Liberators that I have been referring too:

1) May have been hacking and also may not, but have been recently gone, mia, etc.
2) They rarely missed with the dalton.

So while what your saying I find true of most Libs, I have encountered Libs that could 3 shot 3 esf, quite often.

Lately we've been seeing alot of shredder libs for A2A, and regardless of all the Lib pilots telling esf how we should be scared of the shredder, it is infinitely more easy to deal with.

3 shoting 3 ESF isnt a thing, even the best gunners cant do that unless those ESF are really doing something wrong. And three coordinated ESF will kill a Lib before it can fire 3 Dalton shots.

Having flown the best Daltons around at various times, it doesn't work like that. Even in the old days, a Dalton gunner was almost like a RNG machine; too many things had to align just right. A 1/7 hit rate was always considered amazing. Sure, they can occasionally three shot three aircraft, but that's the equivalent of getting a royal flush.

That was before all the performance nerfs. Now, no chance. I can literally dodge dalton hacks in my galaxy. That's why you see shredders. Shredders are dependable, and in close can down an esf in eighteen shots.

yeah they weren't the best lib crews I could find, there were a couple ok ones, but I think you get the idea.

I've certainly noticed quite a few shredders, I was thinking about recording some lib fights now after the update. I think a lot of good lib crews have quit the game, and esf pilots for that matter. Though they all still end up on top of my killboard lol