Lower the air skill ceiling

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Thatoneguy123, Mar 19, 2014.

  1. Thatoneguy123

    As it currently stands the air skill ceiling is too high. Squads of ace pilots can control the sky with little to no recourse. In terms of ground, all people can do is pull AA, and waste time/resources chasing them off and being generally useless 90% of the time. Being on air guard duty isn't fun and definitely not rewarding enough.

    Want to learn to fly? Not going to happen. Generally these ace pilots are nearby or straight out camping the warp gates. And as said, the skill ceiling is so high that you have no clue how to fight back, it is literally a slaughter.

    Let's take a quick look at the play styles (assuming the new player has played FPS's before):

    A newbie infantry man is still a threat to a good player. But the skill ceiling is just enough to where the more experienced player can gain the upper hand.

    A newbie tank is still a threat to a good driver. But the skill ceiling is just enough to where the more experienced player can gain the upper hand.

    But the only outlier here is air. In air, you literally have no chance if you don't know the ins and outs of how to fly for combat. And going to the VR to learn how to not crash doesn't count. That's not combat experience.

    I have over 50 hours in the esf according to the stats, and I haven't learned squat from getting shot down near instantly as soon as I engage an enemy.

    So, SoE, please do something to make air more accessible. AA only works against bad/new pilots. You can't learn to fly in combat if all you do is get gibbed by people 100x better than you.
    • Up x 12
  2. sodopro

    Inb4 learn2fly noob
    • Up x 7
  3. Maelthra

    ESF MLG pro elitists incoming in 3...2...1...
    • Up x 15
  4. Dinapuff

    They tried by giving you lock ons and coyotes. You would do well to find an outfit to teach you instead of crying here.
    Just l2p please.

    Because SOE have shown that they don't know how to make the airgame newbfriendly. This is a teamgame, and being ganged up on you can't do much, not even the ace pilots can't do much these days when cornered by coyotes. There are plenty of people per faction willing to teach you the ropes. A ton of youtube videos and outfits have become more dedicated towards having air superiority because of how effective it is (seen in every scrim match ever).

    Even COD players put in the effort to learn the map, so it stands to reason you can do the same with the ESF.
    • Up x 17
  5. ShortRovnd

    But more skilled players should beat less skilled players. Don't like it? Go play a singleplayer game!

    SOE please raise every skill ceiling.
    • Up x 14
  6. Kurohagane

    And how, exactly, do you think these so-called aces emerged?

    You have the tools to do so, engagement radar, locust, coyote missiles, buffed racer frame, and generally the noob-friendliness has improved.

    Back then, it was much tougher. Burster maxes were as good and accurate as today's skyguards, and there was at least one per hex. People didn't use tomcats, because nobody really knew how good they were, so the clutches weren't really used. No coyotes, either. Lock-ons would clip through everything, flares would bug out, oh, and the striker.

    But they improved, with time. That's all it takes, time to practice. Stop trying to make the game bland. Flying in this game is very unique and has a high skill ceiling as a effect. If you want to play another identical flying game, play a sim, or BF or something. If not, well, then you have to deal with it because the way flying works right now makes it different and fun. The reverse maneuver is just like rocket jumping or bunny hopping is to FPS games. Technically shouldn't happen, but doesn't mean it's bad.

    So at least leave one area of the game requiring of diverse skill; i don't understand why the entire game should be universal. This way there's something for everyone (actually this is why i started flying). Besides, direct encounters between air and ground have miniscule change depending on the pilot's skill if any at all, and two lock-on ESF's will always kill any ace, regardless of how good he is, provided they actually manage to point their crosshair at him.

    It's not the game's fault if you're too lazy to improve.
    • Up x 7
  7. TheMercator

    3 in half an hour. I expected more xD
    • Up x 4
  8. bPostal

    I think you'd want the skill floor raised, rather than the ceiling lowered. That way it's actually, you know, easier for those who are learning to fly and make it feel like you actually stand a chance (even if you don't) against someone who's been flying for over a year.

    Speaking as someone who has been learning how to fly purely A2A recently, there are times when I might as well just hop out and fall to my death as soon as I get shot at. There are also moments, however, when I think to myself 'Ah ha! So this is how it's done' and actually am able to improve as a pilot. Of course, I've had to use three different characters on three different servers in order to rotate my timers and resources so I am able to stay in the air.

    Make it easier for people to learn how to fly effectively and you'd be much better off than gimping those who do nothing but fly.
    • Up x 7
  9. NoctD


    Telling people to turn to A2AMs and Coyotes is just sending them to their death - both weapons when used without any nose gun competency and better flying skills, will still get owned all the time in a 1v1 vs. an experienced pilot. Locust cannons aren't the answer either.

    Without utterly ruining the flying experience by messing with the physics of PS2 flight, I think the only way to change the skill curve to give lesser pilots a chance out there is an air Burster. It would need to have much lower DPS than nose guns, but that should be compensated by much easier aiming and higher overall accuracy given the AOE.

    If they can get the DPS output right, it should come in at a level where better pilots will always prefer a nose gun so unlike Coyotes and A2AMs, this weapon would be only for those who can't get enough accuracy with nose guns (cause their aiming or flying skills just aren't that good). It will also be limited to A2A realistically, you can see how long it takes to kill 1 infantry with a Burster on a MAX today, and it would do squat vs. tanks.

    A low DPS air Burster, 250 certs to unlock, some level of aiming required, should lessen the gap considerably compared to the skill required to track, lead and hit air targets with the nose guns we have today... without becoming a bit too good in the hands of more experienced pilots too, like A2AMs/Coyotes can be.
    • Up x 2
  10. Aethestis

    Most PS2 Pilot checklist to be pro mlg in the air
    • Whine at new player for using lockons while using them to kill new players. Get especially vehement about how the new player couldnt win a 'real duel' with noseguns. Bonus points if you do this AFTER shooting coyotes on said new player and killing them with coyotes
    • Discount the fact that your fully certed, fully maxed out ESF is much better at every job than a new players uncerted ESF, bonus points if you camp their warpgate while ignoring this fact.
    • Pretend that dodging lockon missiles with flares is hard, also pretend that aiming missiles into terrain is impossible when on the forums. However, in actual gameplay, easily dodge these by hitting F, but when you go back to forums, claim its really deterring you from your xp.
    • Bonus points for all of these things if you got to rank 100 by using your esf.
    • Extreme mega bonus points for shooting down new player trying to learn to strafe ground targets. Nothing should whet your appetite more than swooping in on someone who just barely bought that shiny new gear for their esf, now you should take it away.
    • Claim that you value skilled opponents and engagements on the forum, but actively seek out and prey on those weeker than you.
    • Tell everyone who says the ESF game is inaccessible they are just bad when they mention this, also say l2p when those who have given up on flying get frustrated that even their AA options cant kill you the same you can kill them. Bonus points if you bring up 'resources' during this debate.
    • Up x 27
  11. Aethestis

    Also, in a hilarious twist, OP is just asking to be able to learn to fly, not a silver platter of auto win versus the more experienced, but he got jumped on by the magic 'aces' so fast it really makes me glad i posted this checklist for public use.
    • Up x 4
  12. EmmettLBrown

    I haven't done air combat yet. But if they lowered the skill ceiling before then, I'm switching to War Thunder.
    • Up x 2
  13. Paperlamp

    They're trying to but it just ends up a failure of overpowered stuff and experienced pilots abuse it just as much as any noob so noobs still lose.
    • Up x 5
  14. TheMercator

    Not to mention, that experienced pilots somehow still got many changes to their weapons(Nosegun nerf, A2A lock ons) to prevent newbies from having any chance against them.
  15. PWGuy93

    The warpgate is too small to learn how to fly.
    It's not the alpha or launch of the game where everybody starts at the same skill level.
    Make an environment to help want to be pilots learn without instantly facing skilled opponents.
    The VR training means staying in the warpgate, it's simply too small a space to learn.
    • Up x 1
  16. WyrdHarper

    Just like everything else in this game, you really need to find experienced players to work with if you really want to get better.
    • Up x 5
  17. reydelchicken

    What? I am now an above average flier, starting from 0 experience and repeatedly dying to ace pilots.
    Did I give up? No, and I won't until I become an ace myself. If someone doesn't have this mindset, they don't deserve to have tools to help them win against skilled players.

    This is wrong, currently the player that takes the first shot wins, with the exception of rare cases.
    I am specifically mentioning when I fight against players that start shooting me first and take me down. This doesn't happen with weapons that have 0.75x ADS speed, or when hipfiring because you can dodge.

    But to the point, I don't think it's very fair that a player that hits 20% accuracy should be able to win against a player that can hit 40% accuracy simply because they took the first shot.

    This is not the case, I've taken down 2/2 AP MBTs with AP loadouts in my lightning, because they miss me when I move.
    Learning to move and shoot when tanking gives you a big advantage, and reaction time/ turning your tank around so that shells hit your stronger front armour are all skils that can be learned, and that if another player fights you without them, they are an easy target.


    Please no. Have you ever played quake or unreal tournament? When you start out, you can expect to play about 500-1000 games until you start getting the hang of the basics of the game (talking about duel). Since you have to learn to time items, position yourself, aim, dodge shots, move around the map.

    When you first start playing, you can expect to die 40-0 to any decent player and you won't even stand a chance. If you ask any of the top10 players, they will all tell you the same story: "I was really bad at first, but started getting better after a few years of playing x gamemode"


    Btw, if you are interested in learning to fly, I suggest you try to find enemies that are flying in low populated areas, and if you get the jump on them, try not to deal most of your damage while they're facing away. Instead shoot 2-3 bullets at them, this will get their attention, and after they turn to face you try to win against them head to head. This is very helpful when learning to aim the nosegun.
    • Up x 2
  18. DQCraze

    They could help new players by:
    1. Having an ESF training tutorial

    2. A shooting and aiming simulator

    3 ESF Settings tutorial

    VR could easily be setup to handle these without affecting gameplay. I understand the frustration but gimpn vet player's is not the answer.
    • Up x 9
  19. Tycoh

    Just don't bother with A2A in this game. I've been trying for a long *** time and i've yet to be half way as good as the ESF aces in this game. If you want air game, i recommend War Thunder because this games air mechanics and game play is just FUBAR when comparing to other games. Even Starwars Battlefront 2 had better-fun aircraft mechanics.
    • Up x 2
  20. Flapatax

    Ugh, no.
    • Up x 4