About the Vanguard...

Why can't you be this friendly in most discussions?

Because no one is kicking in my door and taking a **** on my desk

Your link is quite outdated, here a more updated discussion on the same forum, pretty much explaining the shape.

http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=38719

Basically, we don't know how the actual armor under the first layer looks like, because it can be an array of different sheets of different materials between the outer steel hull and the actual steel hull, kinda like a mystery-sandwich.

Outer hull slopping can help layers under it to defeat things that penetrate the outer hull. But the main magic happens most of the time under that.

The basic shape of my design has is still valid because the hull is still angled for modern combat ranges, the turret is even more angled than that of an Abrams. The length of the Vanguards nose on my design UFP helps the LOS of the outer layers steel plate.

Though LOS is no longer this deciding in modern armor ...

Most people can be nice ... if you talk about the right stuff and in the right tone.

By that analogy, we could have tried to discuss it at the door.
Shame there wasn't much interest for this method.

I was all for the 3 seat MBTs too.
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...improvement-for-empire-specific-tanks.125899/
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/vanguard-improvements.85278/

It can work so well, but there are too many 'lone-wolf' tankers in MBTs that should be sitting in Lightnings...
(It works for the Liberator and Harasser, so it will definitely work for the MBTs)
This would solve any issues with the control of a turreted Magrider design too.


Yeah, it's strange how a discussion can be civil and constructive when certain people aren't suggesting breaking other people stuff...
Who'd a thunk it?

Using World of Tanks now? Well if we're gonna go there. Lets go with BattleTech (since its based around 30-31st century combat, closer to PS2's 29th century whereas WoT is 21st). Vanguard should have Three gauss rifles like the Alacorn MK VI (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Alacorn). These would do 3200dmg each basically fires like the Prowler with 3 shots instead of two. These gauss rounds would travel at 900-1100 m/s. Course to model the Vanguard after the Alacorn would mean more dmg resistance -1kph speed.

I mean why not? Alacorn is a 26th century tank. We're in the 29th century so it'd only be 300 years old.

I know RHA is no longer used in anything but the first and last layer (Unless face hardening is still employed for the outer layer), that's why I was pointing out slope isn't the most important aspect when dealing with Modern KEPs.
Slope makes a difference when it comes to destabilizing a KEP, but not as much as the stuff behind it. Or in front of it if you consider application of spaced armor

Isn't that just another way of saying energy dispersion/absorption is perhaps the most important aspect of modern tank armour?

you could also use Warhammer 40K tank too, like baneblade XD

Something like the baneblade would be one of the most OP things for whichever side had one. Assuming you could crew the thing properly.

Slow and ponderous sure, but it could obliterate armies by itself. Still, I'd love to see one.

The most important part in terms of armor and defensive armaments would be not getting hit, or producing yaw in the Penetrator prior to hitting.

True, but on the assumption that the round hit, then... ?

Hope to god you live I'm sure. It really doesn't take much to disable a tank depending on where it got hit.

Hope it's destabilized and bounces or shatters on your armor.
Depending on the round. The M829A3 for example has a DU Penetrator in it. Which is also Pyrophoric, which means that if there's enough DU dust in the air once it penetrates, you might be burned to death. More often than not the tank will be disabled as the round will have torn through Mission Critical systems, or someone happened to be in the path of said round.

HEAT rounds operate on a different principle and don't require a high velocity to penetrate. It's basically a jet of very high pressure metal that is molten due to said pressure. Rather than melt through the armor, it digs.
Literally just pushes material to the side as it moves through.

I do know how (real)HEAT rounds work. But thanks for the (DU)Penetrator description.

Ok guys just stop feeding the troll... This debate will always exist until the vanu will be definitely OP.

Close the subject and that's all

Thread had died.
Well played.