The Dalton Is Simply Far Too Versatile

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by NoctD, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. NoctD

    Let's take a closer look at the Dalton, shall we? I know most of you don't want your farm tube balanced properly, but you have to realize why its totally ridiculous to have a single weapon be able to perform every single role there is in the game. There's really nothing else quite like it in the game really, and if there was, you'd be complaining about them too.

    Intended role: Anti tank rounds, so obviously they were made to kill ground vehicles from the air.

    Effective role: Anti everything, infantry, armor, air, etc.


    Basically put, the Dalton today is able to kill ESFs, other Libs, Galaxies, ground vehicles, and infantry easily enough. Anything that comes near a Lib is dead to the Dalton. Let's examine shall we why its so darn effective at everything...

    AA: Limitless firing angles due to the ability to belly flop and have no changes to drop, so effectively aiming doesn't change much. Imagine if MBTs could angle their cannons straight up into the air, they could do AA as well, why don't we let MBTs do that? In fact, apparently MBTs are such bad monsters for taking out Libs with their main guns, that these have to be nerfed. Huh, and its ok that the Dalton which should be performing the same role as MBT main guns, can continue to keep its AA function?

    AV: Well not much needs to be said here, but this is its intended role and it does it well. That's ok, that's its intended role.

    AI: Ok, now this is NOT cool. Seriously, why does the Dalton have a larger blast radius than the Zephyr? And why do MBT AP guns only get 2m blast radius? How's this fair in any way shape or form? Changing the inner blast radius damage doesn't move the needle very much, how about bringing it inline with AP guns on MBTs, i.e. blast radius should be 2m max. It shouldn't be an infantry farming tool as well given how well it does its main AV function already. Or maybe we should give all MBT AP guns the blast radius of the Dalton?


    You get the picture now. The Dalton is simply totally out of whack, there's no way to rationally say it isn't performing too well in all roles, because its effective in all areas. So how can we bring it back in line:

    AA: Limit drop to only a certain roll angle, beyond which, the drop becomes variable and bad so it won't be effective when belly flopping. This still allows it to be used for its intended AV roles vs. ground vehicles with no changes there.

    AI: Just level set the Dalton to the same level as MBT AP guns. Why does the Dalton get special treatment, if anything its easier, you're firing from above. The outer blast radius should be reduced to MBT AP gun levels. They should be forced to choose between AV and AI (Zephyr and the new Spur)... instead of running the Dalton for everything cause you can pick off infantry easily enough even if you don't OHK them, given the generous blast radius and quick reloads of the current Dalton.


    There you have it. Go try to defend it all you want, but let's admit it, the Dalton simply performs too many roles too well. Its your anti-everything gun, and it shouldn't be that way because it invalidates and outperforms a whole lot of other options in the process.

    If an ESF can kill a Lib or a Galaxy, a Lib with a Dalton can do it so much quicker. A Dalton Lib can farm endless MBTs and infantry unless you can get enough AA to stop them, a single 2/2 AP focused MBT has nowhere near the capability/potential of the Dalton Lib vs. other tanks. Seriously, you can't let a single vehicle be so good at everything and call this balanced. And then to top it off with a cherry, you can farm infantry easily enough with blast radius galore than AP focused tanks don't have the luxury off.

    How's the Dalton balanced today? It simply isn't!
    • Up x 15
  2. AltF4Fun

    Is it really necesarry to open a thread to this topic? Not that I dont understand the point you try to make,but there are already so many of them floating around the forum. Just necro one next time pls.
    • Up x 5
  3. Amundsenkalmah

    Have you tried to use the dalton?
    I am of the idea that there should be a requirement of at least having auraxium medal with a weapon to make statements-opinions (auraxium is the minimum number of kills needed for someone to really know the weapon).
    • Up x 9
  4. axiom537

    Dalton is over rated. I prefer the Shredder. Most people that complain about the Dalton or the Liberator in general have no idea what they are talking about and couldn't keep one alive for more then a minute, let alone do any of the things they are complaining about. The reason being is only about 5% or less of the entire PS2 player base can do some of the amazing flying feats.

    If it is so easy to hit another air craft with a Dalton round, then stop crying about it and get in your Dalton Liberator and take out that Dalton Liberator hitting Air targets, then once it is dead you can focus on using the Dalton Liberator the way you think it should be used.

    Dalton is fine it is the AP round of the sky.
    • Up x 3
  5. Jaronallus

    yes, the dalton is versatile- but honestly when you're running around at 200kph and accounting for drop+velocity+angle of your aircraft (and for enemy aircraft in A2A), i think the dalton is fine where it is. flying is the most difficult thing to do effectively in this game. why shouldn't we get an all-around weapon that specializes in vehicular destruction? i understand the AI complaint, that's 100% valid considering we have the zephyr, but you must understand that the zephyr is extremely unappealing right now. 6 shots, 4 sec reload, 2 hits to kill 1 infantry, and almost no damage to vehicles except on direct hits. in addition, it has a higher bullet drop (due to gravity).

    Liberators are also soft-countered by AA, enemy battle galaxies, lockons, and hard-countered by ESF's and enemy dalton libs. The area denial on any of these (except an unaware esf) are huge. most of the time, you never even get to use your zephyr for its intened purpose because as soon as you descend past 600m (in any medium-large battle), you are jumped by either 1-3 esf's, a lib, or flak/lockons. it's just unreasonable to nerf the dalton within these contexts. if anything, buff the zephyr and leave the dalton alone. in addition, (within the context of the new lib resist values) the shredder will become vastly overpowered, as it's basically a chain-gun version of the dalton anyway. blows up esfs, libs, ground targets, and infantry very quickly. I'd focus less on the dalton, and more on the general resist changes that are going through. It'll make taking out a lib very difficult except if you're using a shredder, flak, or AA missiles.
    • Up x 2
  6. Alarox

    TL;DR nerf the Shredder?
    • Up x 3
  7. TheFamilyGhost

    Stopped reading there.

    Another plea to make the game easier by casting pejoratives on people.

    What is the demographic that posts stuff like this? Why the fascination with making the game easier?
    • Up x 5
  8. Morti

    your sig takes up 2/3 thirds of my screen

    you think random people on the internet care what weapons you auraxed?
    • Up x 8
  9. DevDevBooday

    Thread is pointless, the patch notes for the upcoming Lib update say its already getting nerfed against infantry so it will be an anti- vehicle weapon only, Libs and Gals are recieving resistance to it as well so its not as strong. ESFs are still OHK though.
  10. TheBloodEagle


    They'd care if he was critiquing the weapon since he'd have better insight & experience rather than someone just complaining as usual on forumside. (still a big sig though)
    • Up x 5
  11. Flashtirade

    The Dalton shouldn't be as good as it is at AI, since that's the Zephyr's (and to some extent the Shredder's) job. I imagine the easy fix is just to change some values and resistances (since the splash affects vehicles as well).
    I don't agree with anything else, though. Leading shots using any of the belly guns takes a lot of skill, and so is flying in such a manner that the gunner can even take shots in the first place.
    I've got very limited experience in a liberator, either gunning or flying. However, what that time has taught me is that it's not just as easy as flipping/iron crossing and raking in certs, like how ESF dogfighting isn't just RM to win.
    • Up x 1
  12. Oreo202

    Yep, the Liberator does so little to any fight with more than 2 squads per side that it needs to be reduced into nothing so it can't even affect small fights anymore. I agree totally.
    • Up x 2
  13. Divector

    Lot's of BR 100 have not auraxium in heavy's rocket launcher and still knows perfectly.
    Now speaking about dalton, i think it needs 0.5m indirect damage (actually 1m) to ohko, needs a direct hit against infantry and it should be same drop/veolcity than bulldog from sunderers, even with that, it is OP against ground vehicles because angle of fire.
  14. iller

    Where's yours? All I see in your sig is automatics and 1 shotgun
    Dalton is more like a Bolt action but with faster rechambering.
  15. Sulsa

    I used the Dalton for very nearly the first time last night.
    Had a good zoom and the pilot was pretty good.

    I on the other hand...

    ...that thing is powerful but OMG it's about the most difficult thing to use properly that I've tried in PS2.
    • Up x 2
  16. IamnotAmazing

    av=fine
    ai= yeah it needs to be nerfed, and it's getting nerfed next patch
    aa= not an effective too unless you're fighting good pilots[/quote]
  17. IamnotAmazing


    NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    • Up x 2
  18. grazr

    Agree with OP completely. It's a shame they aren't removing OHK on ESF's though. People act like it's so hard to hit ESF, when anything inside of 100m is free XP and 100-300 a relative shooting gallery. Keeping your distance in an ESF wouldn't be such a chore if you didn't have to face them to do damage.
  19. Amundsenkalmah

    Are you going to say anything constructive or you are here to contribute to lock the thread?

    I never said anything about the dalton, i have my opinion but since im not that "expert" with it, i reserve it to myself most of the times
    • Up x 1
  20. CSarsalid

    If there's any change I wanted them to make with the Dalton it's so that it does not one shot ESF's anymore. I don't care about any other change it makes; I just don't want it to be able to one shot ESF's. What I think it SHOULD do is put ESF's halfway into red, so it's "Back off or you'll die", or you can just switch to the 3rd seat to finish them if they run away. Using Daltons as an AA weapon is all RNG right now. You spam shots until you happen to hit ESF's and it's really just bull ****