A.I. Max Weapons

First of all, lets use the magic of Forumside to establish my position on the NC MAX, since you seem to be riled up by what you think it is. Luckily, I already have a compilation post handy!

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...eds-a-serious-buff.169165/page-6#post-2441914

Wow. Much Info. Such Handy. Very MAX.

Who's complaining? I merely stated a fact. The long reload is a fact. It is not a bad thing. It is not a good thing. It is simply what it is. Those who fall victim to it are those who run out of position, you know, the part where I say "An NC MAX who over-extends". That fault lies purely with the player, and not his reload time. Show me where I am asking for it to be buffed and your statement will have credibility.

This is debatable. The NC MAX is the most flexible of the 3 MAXes but as you can see from Forumside, even now, most people simply can't get a handle on how to kit their MAX out for every range or situation. A TR or VS MAX doesn't need to choose to run mid-range/short-range, it's built into their guns, an NC MAX does need to make that choice, but our choices are very very strong. And again, that's not a bad thing or a good thing. It is simply what it is.

If you're addressing this to Forumside as a whole, have at it. If you made this point simply to pick a fight with me over Forumside about my position on the NC MAX, let me tell you now, you're not going to win.

Another meme-loving forum-sider tough-guy. I am not interested in "winning" any debate with you or anyone, I don't debate to "pick fights" or to "win" I debate to share viewpoints or agree with those who I believe get it right or are right, or oppose those of the people I believe are wrong or get it wrong. If you want to think of arguing or debating on a forum as a battle to be won, well, have fun. I don't play that game.

Regardless, to be honest my post was a retort to NC players in general, though mostly focusing on your post. I've seen NC come on FS to spiel their complaints about virtually everything since and during Beta, especially their MAX, so I'm getting rather biased.

In your case, yeah, you were careful enough with your words to weasel around out-right saying what I said you said. In general however you post reads like yet another complaint post among all the others in this tread, and all the other treads we have had on the subject.

Assume I was speaking to NC players in general and not just you specifically.

Its different: on most weapons you need a cert investment of like 100 or maybe 200 certs. Which is very viable.

NC max: requires 1000 certs or is worse than the TR max in EVERY SITUATION. EVEN CQB.
It needs an additional 300 certs to be any good after 10m.

Is there a difference in 230 certs, and 1300 certs? YES THERE IS!

The fact that NC max will lose to a TR max in CQB is ridiculous. (unless he spends 1000 certs on exmags)

On other maxes its optional to buy exmags, cuz really you will do fairly fine without it.
On NC max its MANDATORY, or you will suck in every possible situation you can imagine against another max.

Reducing the cert to get extended mags to like 200 certs for all maxes would be very nice of SOE.
It would favor all maxes, not causing arguments.

NC is the weakest max, at the moment in all situations.
IF he has EXMAGS then he is better in CQB. (just keep in mind exmags are 500 certs per arm)

Most NC maxes use charge. Why?

An NC max always have to overextend to be affective. TR and VS do not.
In situations where is is like 0-10m from the enemy, the shield is pretty useless. Since he will most likely be C4ed or shotdown by players behind him.

And yes there is a bug where sometimes your reload hangs while you have the shield on.

Apparently stating facts as they are is now a form of weaseling.

I'll keep that in mind and make sure to start biasing my NC MAX analysis from now on.

It was rather nice to spend 4 months instagibbing other MAXes after all.



Again, my post history speaks for itself.

To begin with, you are being very vague - where exactly are these 1000 certs needed and what exactly makes it worse than the TR in every single situation if you don't have these magical 1000 certs?

My experience is of an NC MAX that can do massive damage in a powerful alpha hit then reload while shielding itself from virtually no damage from the front. In a MAX 1v1 situations like that the TR MAX can only put damage on the NC MAX when it's shooting, not at any other time because the NC MAX is using it's shield.

But really, tell us all how the NC MAX is categorically worse than the TR MAX in every respect without these certs. I wanna hear this.

I don't care about your posting history, I replied to your post on page one, though foolishly with a half-way generalized reply to the NC in general, not just you.

As for the weaseling, I'll retract that. I was honestly thinking of another NC's post when I added that. Apologies.

I get the feeling though your analysis is a bit off. You cite the reload time and then claim that it's hard for an NC MAX to come with the fact that "after bursting down 1-3 heavies he has to reload" and that this can get him killed. And that's only when he overextends, according to you. If your in a huge fight where there are still more enemies to kill after the first 3 guys, it's likely the odds are to great to handle, especially when you get out of position. What do you want? Is it okay when the NC MAX can burst down 5-7 guys or something before he has to reload to make it easier on NC MAX users who manage to overextend?

I would like to again remind you the NC MAX can deploy the shield to at least cover one angle while he reloads, a luxury neither of the other MAX'es have. TR MAX'es that overextends and even those who don't, spend longer killing 1-3 guys than the NC MAX ever will have to, and they get no shield to hide behind when reloading. With a NC MAX you can aim, unload the mags into a few enemies that will swiftly kill them, then while you are reloading you deploy the shield to mitigate incoming damage. You can even look down to cover your feet against C4 explosions to survive the blast, unless they have changed that recently.

This is a luxury the TR MAX don't get, or the VS one for that matter. Both of those can only hope to keep shooting and pray that they kill enemies faster than they get rockets or C4 or just more fire off on you, because they have no portable grace period. Yet your complaining about small mags and rapid fire that empties your mags really fast, and how much of a chore it is to have to reload... from behind the comforting safety of your shield.

"Oh but it's only one direction and don't always work" I hear you say. The other two have no directional cover at all and there is nothing covering them all of the time. Well, at least they can compensate with greater volume of sustained fire, but the VS are the only one with any really accurate weapons, leaving TR behind with the longest time required to kill any one infantry or other MAX. You can't rely on head-shots either unless you are REALLY close, and even then the average TTK is higher than a comparable NC MAX. What's the balance again, you might ask?

You get a shield to hide behind when reloading.

You seriously have very little to complain about in regards to your MAX's performance.

Well for starters lets take in MAX vs MAX fights.

NC max has a lower TTK than the TR/VS max in CQB.
The TR max has something like 5.6, while the NC max has something like 6.2.


As for MAX vs Infantry:

NC max gets a 6 round mag. (2 arms = 12 per mag)

Most players fire 4 rounds (2 per arm) to make sure the job is done. (in CQC)
So basically you kill about 3 people per mag till you have to reload. (4 secs)

And we all know how useless the NC max is outside 10m.
TR and VS maxes complain that their guns are inaccurate. Well Slugs are even more inaccurate (much more).

Using slugs is not an upgrade, but more of a sidegrade. You lose your instagibing ability unless its like 1m. And you arguably get a worse TTK than the TR/VS max (in killing infantry and maxes) in 5-10m.

And the NC max only gets a 0.3s better TTK (without slugs) which is not really that much, since any infantry would die almost instantly if it is within 5m of an AI max.


So basically how the TR/VS max is superior to the NC max:

1)Can kill more infantry without having to reload.
2)Their reload is not as 'damaging and frustrating' as the NC max.
3)Will kill an NC max at any range (unless the NC max is using grinders and not miss a single shot at point blank range, which is practically impossible in a game where infantry moves)
4)Has more sustained damage
5)Are more accurate
6)Are playable in more situations

I dunno how the NC max is superior to the TR max in any situations without Exmags.


Just like lockdown is pretty good in 1v1 situations but sucks in practical gaming,
the Aegis shield is kind of the same thing.

And just for arguments sake, you said that the NC max can pop up its shield while its reloading. Well the TR max can sprint backwards for the 4 second the NC max is reloading.

Mate, the shield is very bugged. (it doesnt block flak and it sometimes hangs the reload) Other than that, it makes you a still duck, while not protecting you from the sides/behind. Died many times of C4 of the little while i used the shield. (then i went back to charge)
Its more viable to actually try to sprint out of a room, than use the aegis shield and be a duck for 5 seconds, while still taking loads of damage from behind.

I find it rare to see an NC max using the shield these days. Charge is an all round superior choice, since NC max has to close the distance fast to do anything.


Just saying the shield would be a more viable option for the VS max and the ZOE would be a more viable option for the NC max.
WHY?

Well ZOE gives you more damage output in 30m, and movement is always welcome (NC max is only good till 10m so its all good)

The shield is a better choice for a max who is good at range, since you can use it without overextending to put down damage.

I thought TR maxes being difficult to use was because me sucking, Didn't realize that it's actually pretty Terrible all around.

:c

#trmaxbuff2014

60m (or 54m if you really do mean yards) in game is not a particularly viable range even with Mattocks, slugs and extended mags, yeah you'll get kills at that range, but killing almost anything?

People who complain about the NC MAXs reload time never seem to take into account the fact that ScatMAXs are most at home in places with a plethora of cover and sharp corners.

Generally, ScatMAXs are rarely a) working alone, or b) standing still in the middle of a fight.

Smart guys use pounders as AI weapons. MAX, Vehicle or infantry it dies just the same.

Falcons are a close second for outside shotgun range combat.

Best feature of the explosive AV weapons is that even misses shake the enemys screen so bad they wont be able to return effective fire.


Poor poor comets ... Sucks to have all AV weapons balanced for ZOE and now after nerf about 2% of VS uses that anymore. Personally havent seen a ZOE max in a month.

So is every AI MAX.

The only real difference is some other AI MAXs have more options.

Mate, If lockdown MAX cant react for NC MAC walking SLOW AS HELL with the shield, behind his back, than he deserves to be dead. Shield slows NC max to crawl... I can do way better with charge. And i do, enemies barely have time to react while i empty my clip on them. But than comes reload, and if i didnt manage to clear room in that time - im dead.

But i agreed on your opinion about chainguns - its a joke, wish we could have real miniguns in this game.

I take it, bro. Take my shotgun arms, give me dual gauss saws. Bring me down to your level, so i can show you what deing from mid range max looks like.

Exacly, SUSTAINED FIRE. While NC maxes are beasts in CQC, their reload is horrific. Ammo cap doesnt allow to hold door, like VS and TR maxes tend to do. They deny infantry entrance to the room, supressing enemies from approaching. And murdering any fools that dare to try to enter. NC MAX in no way can do the same alone, reloads give alot of time for enemy to drop c4 thru the door. They need to be close to the door, else they cant reach their targets.

AND PLEASE, dont put the damn slugs into equasion, theyre BAD, ABSOLUTELY bad. Nowhere near the effectiveness the TR and VS ranged weapons.

I totally felt NC max uselessness in saurva biolab, where they spammed spawn room exit with falcons, killing ppl from like 60+ meters. I feel it even more when 3 scatmaxes charge in room with dozen of infantry and wipe them in like 2 seconds with 0 losses on their side. With TR maxes it takes much more time and outcome is unpredictable.
But ofc in huge war only thing which matters is 1v1 performance without 1000certs toys (lol 1k certs - its like last level of one armor vest for one class).

MAX's main task is to push infantry in CQC, not duels on 100+ meters. For THIS task NC max is best.
Fot AA - bursters are available for all nations. Other tasks can be performed fine without maxes.

You felt uselessness against dual falcon MAX spamming rockets? You are a TR, take dual pounders, lockdown, position yourself above stairs and spam pounders to infinity with ammo pack under your feet. Or no lockdown, just walk around and farm kills with pounders.
NC max? dual pounders will fix it. I play TR aswell, dual pounders are TR new cure for NC maxes.
3 maxes charge into room? Nerf team work moar please.

I'm VS. Why should everybody jump on max to counter NC max? Its supposed to be harmless on 10+m, isnt it? At least thats what i read here from every NC sack of bias. Yes, our ppl jumped on maxes, HAs, turrets etc, and pushed NC back but losses didnt indicate any harmlessness.

And rush of 3 ppl is not exactly teamwork. Its just well, rush. If its teamwork then zerg rolls are teamwork too, even greater one, since team is bigger and harder to "organize".

Anybody tried dual ravens? This is what I call long range AE (anti everything)

You misspelled "everything" with "infantry"

The only alternative is the word "MAX".

And I suppose this means you're one of the people who think the NC MAX should be outmatched at long range, medium range, AND close range? And that it requiring two full extended magazines to take down an enemy MAX at around 5-8m (all or nothing situation) isn't bad enough?

You're totally not biased. I swear.

Well technically Falcons are AV weapons not AI (but yes they are the NC's best longer range AI MAX option), but what puzzles me is that Pounders are better than Falcons in the situation you highlight.


Also if 3 NC AI MAXs can kill a room with a dozen people in in 2.0 seconds (I don't think they can, personally) then the best TTK TR MAX weapons would at worst take 3.2 seconds to do the same (1.2 seconds more), however it is likely to be significantly less than that as that would only be if every infantryman was killed at 0m - which is pretty much impossible unless the VS Infantrymen were purposfully lining up and cooperating with death.

Youre clearly lying. Im biased as f***