A.I. Max Weapons

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Styrkr, Feb 24, 2014.

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  1. Paperlamp

    This is a dated sheet but I don't think it's changed yet -

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AuOojvNLMApVdEtIU1NKenEzNzZOSWNaanFqSUVxLWc&type=view&gid=12&f=true&colid0=17&filterstr0=MAX (AI)&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

    You can see Blue Shifts are more accurate than Mercies, with 10 fewer rounds but near identical TTK. Which makes Mercies worse in most situations, like many TR weapons that trade accuracy for extra bullets.

    Also it's just obvious shotguns do more burst damage than any of the VS/TR MAX AI weapons.


    112 dmg per pellet x 6 pellets x 2 shotguns x 180(RoF) / 60(seconds) = 4032 potential damage in a second.

    125 dmg per bullet x 2 guns x 426(RoF) / 60(seconds) = 1775 potential damage in a second


    Even missing some pellets, the shotgun is dealing way more damage / time firing at point blank. I don't know how you got the idea they were even close to equal in that regard. The weakness that NC complain about is that you have to make those shots count due to smaller mag, I don't think most would deny there's a clear TTK advantage at least at close ranges.
    • Up x 3
  2. FieldMarshall

    I dont play VS MAX but after having played TR Mercy MAX and NC Grinder (and later Mattock MAX):

    NC MAX:
    + 0TTK in CQB against infantry. Can kill enemies before they get off that Decimator shot.
    + Can reliably take on enemy MAXes in CQB. If you dont miss shots.
    - Has to reload often. Less sustainability in longer firefights.
    - Ammo pool seems to deplete faster
    - Has to get close to enemies to reliably kill them. Having to use corners and the minimap alot

    TR MAX:
    + Can engage enemies a bit further away.
    + Doesent have to reload as often as the NC MAX. Better at fighting multiple enemies.
    - Usually loose to a NC MAX in CQB.

    I wouldnt really say that the "effective range" of the TR and NC MAX is nearly the same.

    I feel more comfortable in the TR MAX when i have to go anywhere that is not inside a building or tower.
    On the flip side, when i play as the NC MAX, i dont feel threatened by anything when im inside buildings or towers.
    Like i can kill anything that may come up. Only having to worry about reloads.
    When i play NC MAX i have to play a bit smarter. Using corner and the minimap alot more, aim a bit more to not waste that precious ammo. When i play as TR, i feel like i have more leeway.

    I feel like they are pretty much balanced. More or less.
    They are at the opposite extremes of eachother.

    (These are just my experiences with both after having played them equally as much)
    • Up x 3
  3. AltF4Fun

    Why didnt someone just necro the haxmax op thread from a few days ago. Its basically the same thread all over again.....:rolleyes:
    • Up x 2
  4. Phazaar


    More burst damage, yes. Lower TTK, not necessarily. Whack a 4 second reload in there and have a look-see. Cripplingly late right now, but off the top of my head, I think he's right. Also try the same calculation at >8m...
    • Up x 2
  5. Santondouah

    There are actually two types of slugs. For semi-auto/auto shotungs it's the 500 damage slugs you mentioned. Pump-action and MAXes get a 700 damage version.
  6. Kill2This

    Hello,

    Just bringing my own experience about the Aegis shield of the NC Max.
    The idea is really good but it doesn't work AT ALL in real time gameplay. Just like "Chewy102" said it, NEARLY EVERY DAMAGE bleed through this shield and it's really bugged from it's root. Even if you prepare yourself for the attack, you never know if it will absorb or not. This is a real game of luck and isn't fun at all.
    I bought it at release and immediately certed it at max level. I played with it for more than six month without using the charge anymore. Till today.
    I can tell you that my max is at least 3 times more effective with charge than with the shield which, i say it once more, is bugged from it's conception.
    Until SOE comes with fixes or redesign, I think I'll never touch it anymore. Really good in conception but awefull in practice. I really think it became worse these last month. The only fix i see is a bubble instant shield with less damage absorbsion.

    I really hope an official reply from the dev, because this thing is really broken for too much time.

    Bye.
  7. Goretzu

    It is functionally the same though, you can do nothing in those potential 0.3 seconds that you could or could not have done in 0.0 seconds and you will live or die with either weapon just the same.

    And remember this is a 0m comparrison, by just 5m it has changed, by 8m it is completely different (never mind if you can headshot with TR/VS weapons).

    No AI MAX regularly engages at 0m, usually the distance is at least 5m (because otherwide it is C4-boom-dead), even when doorway camping and a more realistic distance for close range engagements is anything from 5-15m range.


  8. Goretzu


    For sustained damage due to the sheer amount of time the NC AI MAXs spend reloading (2/3s of their time at full fire rate) a TR/VS AI MAX can do more, for example: ~780 sustained for the Hacksaw vs ~810 sustained for the mutilator.


    However TTK is a different issue, the standard NC AI MAX simply doesn't carry enough damage in 2x magazines to kill an enemy MAX (even at 0m) with the Scattercannon, Hacksaw, or Mattock.

    And when KA5 is uses it doesn't with the Scattercannon, Hacksaw or Mattock even with extended mags.

    But against a standard MAX with the Grinder or others with extended mags it will win.




    Which makes the NC AI MAX very unreliable and "jerky" in its effective damage against other MAXs as it tends to enter always win or always lose situations.

    Against infantry I think the better sustained damage of VS/TR AI MAX is more useful.
    • Up x 5
  9. Surmise

    You can't go wrong with any A.I. option, every single option is extremely powerfull(read blatantly overpowered) against infantry and you don't need to aim, just hold left mouse and use w+a+d+s to move, kinda hilarious but that is the state of MAX balance vs infantry atm, especially when you combine firepower with tankiness that is even more upgradable.

    Currently the MAXes represent Point and click adventure simulators, very fun to use and you can roll your face over the keyboard/mouse and still do fantastic in terms of combat performance.

    OP you just can't go wrong with any option, enjoy the facerollage.
  10. Kanil

    As a not-heavy assault, it is basically identical for me. At best, I might be able to shoot the VS/TR max once or twice, and two bullets won't really bother it that much. The effective range difference is extremely noticeable, however. NC maxes are my favorite to fight, as you stand a chance if you can maintain range.

    'course, heavy assault might get that rocket shot off, and might have a different opinion on which maxes are easier/harder to deal with, but (and this might surprise some of you) there's classes other than heavy in the game.
  11. Killuminati C

    I'd trade shotguns for mercies any day of the week and if the devs take your advice I'll personally come back and thank you. Honesty, any TR or VS that makes their faction equivalent out to be garbage doesn't know what they're talking about.
  12. Gendomaoken

    Hey bro, i like your proposition. There, take my shotguns, give me dual gauss saw. And one more thing, try killing something "mid-range" with slug arms, than come back at me with"slugs being fine, l2play".
    Thats typical TR banter i hear all the time. I use Mattocks, and i hate lottery, i prefer to be effective at short range over TRYING to snipe ONE player with whole mag.
    • Up x 2
  13. Ghosty11

    Roughly speaking they are carbon copies of each other since the weapons are equivalent. The TR trades accuracy for higher theoretical DPS and DPM, but this doesn't really work out well for the TR MAX. The VS MAXes' higher damage per bullet and better accuracy in reality provides better actual DPS and DPM.

    Below is a comparison of the AI weapons:

    Mercy ~= Blueshift - These are the accurate long range weapons for the TR & VS. Both of these weapons have the same minimum and maximum damage. The Mercy fires a 125 damage round at a rate of 426 rpm and bullet speed of 550 m/s with a 50 round magazine, while the Blueshift fires a 143 damage round at 366 rpm with a bullet speed of 550 m/s, and a 40 round magazine. Blueshifts accuracy numbers are across the board superior to the Mercy. The Blueshift is capable of accurately hitting targets out to 100m or more, while Mercy's accuracy numbers would make hitting targets out that far very difficult. The Blueshift has the clear edge in this category.

    Onslaught ~= Nebula - These are the high RoF CQC weapons for the TR VS. The TR Onslaught fires a 125 damage round at a rate of 492 rpm and velocity of 440 m/s, damage drops off to 100 @ 50m, while sporting a 60 round magazine. The VS Nebula fires a 143 damage round at a rate of 426 rpm and velocity of 430 m/s, damage drops off to 112 @ 50m while sporting a 50 round magazine. Accuracy of both weapons is about equal (worse than the Mercy or Blueshift), for some reason the VS guns have a better jumping accuracy than the TR weapons, but at the ranges where these weapons are optimal, accuracy is not a big factor. The Onslaught gets a slight edge here due to the higher DPS and DPM.

    Heavy Cycler ~= Quasar - These are the higher damage tier accurate weapons for the TR and VS. They are also the default AI arm. The TR Heavy Cycler fires a 143 damage round at a rate of 400 rpm with a velocity of 450 m/s, damage drops off to 125 @ 65m and has a 60 round magazine. The VS Quasar fires a 167 damage round at a rate of 337 rpm with a velocity of 450 m/s, damage drops off to 143 @ 65m and has a 50 round magazine. Again the VS weapon has slightly better accuracy while the TR weapon slightly better DPS/DPM. This category I rate as a draw since these are pretty much all purpose weapons and both fill the role adequately.

    Mutilator ~= Cosmos - These are higher damage tier, high capacity cqc bullet hoses. The TR Mutilator fires a 143 damage round at a rate of 400 rpm with a velocity of 500 m/s, damage drops off to 125 @ 65m, having a 100 round magazine. The VS Cosmos fires a 167 damage round at a rate of 337 rpm with a velocity of 500 m/s, having a 75 round magazine. This is where TR and VS traits get broken, as the VS Cosmos has the worst accuracy numbers of any AI MAX weapon that is not a shotgun, but the TR weapon maintains it's DPS and DPM advantage. In this category the Mutilator is the clear winner.
    • Up x 2
  14. JesNC

    Thank you.

    Having only ever cursory touched TR/VS MAXes this is really good information.
  15. Styrkr

    Wow.... Guess I found a hot button topic...

    Basically, from what I've read, my observations seem true. VS has better range than the others, NC has super-DPS but no range, and TR has less range than VS but way less DPS than NC (and maybe VS, not sure). TR has suppression capabilities, but no kill power, whereas NC is the inverse. IMO, [constant] suppressive fire in this game (save for explosives) is rarely used in this game due to players having minimal consequences for taking a couple of bullets. As for the NC Max's main complaint, ammo, I rarely am able to take advantage of this because 99.999% of the time he has friends. A lot of friends.
    I totally agree about the pounders, but anyone who thinks "fractures for A.I." needs to use them again. They got nerfed and now it takes more rounds to kill infantry than a standard gun (SMG, LMG, Carbine, Pistol, etc).

    Sounds like Max's have to be re-done for AI roles to allow better play on all sides :/
    Boy, the list grows, eh?
    • Up x 2
  16. biterwylie

    Careful what you wish for....... If NC get mid range weapons you will see more whine than ever from TR and VS. The shotgun maxes need a lot of support even at close range, and without 1000certs mag upgrade they are straight rubbish. The TR mini gun maxes are much more fun and versatile.
    • Up x 1
  17. Chewy102


    MAXes are an infantry class. AI weapons are not the best option to use against them from resistances but it is a very viable source of damage. This isn't PS1 where MAXes require AP ammo to take out as infantry and you need AV MAXes to fight other MAXes. MAXes should be able to fight MAXes no matter what. That is a reason for MAXes to exist in the first place, to fight other MAXes. AV MAXes are going to be better at killing other MAXes than AI MAXes, but AI MAXes should be able to at least stand their ground against each other.

    Back to my question. Please name one, just one, weapon that will fail to do its job without added skill and/or cert options. Every other weapon in the game can do its job without one damned cert and can kill with leg shots if the users skill was bad enough. I can't think of a single weapon that forces head shots and expensive cert options no matter the conditions that isn't on a NC MAX. Canister maybe but get that in its proper range and it will do what it is meant to do, it is just hard to get to that range.
    • Up x 1
  18. Chewy102

    Sorry, MAX slugs are the 500-334 auto/semi-auto type as the NC MAX only has those shotgun types. NC MAX has no "pump" style shotgun defined by the extra pellets, shell by shell reloads, and slow fire rate. Go to the VR and it is impossible to get a kill with MAX slugs with just one shot.

    Plus pump slugs do 800 at 8m and 400 at 40m.
    • Up x 1
  19. axiom537

    you forgot reload time in your DPS formula. That will change the DPS potential significantly...
    • Up x 1
  20. Purg


    Nope. I have a level 5 shield on my NC MAX and have been killed multiple times by TR/VS MAX at my optimum range - presumably because they were running KA5.

    Extended Mattocks took them down to ~1/3 health and they were able to burn through me and my shield before I could finish my reload.

    I've also killed many NC MAX with my TR/VS AI loadouts by keeping them at 10+ meters (which also negates an extended Grinder front loaded death in one ammo load). If they pop a shield with no immediate cover (which is often the case) they're just a sitting duck at that point.
    • Up x 1
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