MAX suits are not fun to play against and there is too many of them

Cooldown, pure and simple. The more aggressive MAX players are punished since it doesn't take this long to heal, and if you Charge, get healed and then go back and eat something again, then obviously you can't just Charge back out. Keep in mind no cooldown was the reason old ZOE was a big reason old ZOE was considered overpowered - you could outrun infantry with it (like Charge), you did 30% more damage than normal, and the 30% extra damage taken (which gave basically 50% bullet resistance and no explosive resistance unless those were re-boosted back up) wasn't nearly enough drawback with a support team - and it could be flicked on and off with a button. An old ZOE MAX with max Flak Armor was, simply put, downright scary to fight to the point of being impossible without at least six people because it could move that fast and kill even quicker than a regular MAX.

The whole point of charge is to either cover a distance quickly, or to race to back lines. Pure and simple, if you don't have enough people to hit those back lines, then your failure has nothing to do with Charge and everything to do with you not having a counter to MAXes that retreat to get patched up. Simply put, if you've already got enemy MAXes playing Spawn Room Warrior, you've already lost if you don't move your forces elsewhere. Find a different angle of attack, or regroup at another base and flank them.

You also realize how silly this sounds when the same argument can be said, but in reverse, right? Here, I'll even do it for you.

After all, your argument is forgetting the opposing side has MAXes too. Removing MAXes will not remove stalemates - if anything, it will prolong them.
The bigger problem with Biolabs or Tech Plants is the limited angles of attack. Multiple angles of attack is what breaks stalemates; this is why when attackers hold only one spawn point in a biolab, all the defenders go there, but if they get two or three points, then it's much harder to defend. Ditto for tech plants: There's basically four or five entrances attackers can use without taking down shields. At the same time, the defenders are supposed to have a bit of an advantage - the problem is right now it's arguably too much. (This is honestly more of a problem for the tech plant than the biolab, since a tech plant is always focused on one control point.)

Despite that, it's not impossible. Stalemates like this are often broken, or at least severely shifted, by MAX crashes. The defenders can't do a MAX crash under any circumstances (but they can spawn a group of them there... if they want severely overworked medics and engineers), but a dedicated group of attackers can. Get a squad and have them all go MAX and rush out at the same time - if that don't severely bust the stalemate, then frankly, you're boned either way.

PS: Still disagree with your belief. The KDR Rambos are almost always rolling around in tanks. MAXes are situational, but when you got a group of 10-20 vehicles pounding away at a single spawnroom door, you're honestly screwed worse than you are with fighting MAXes. With the MAX, you at least got a small chance to get out and hit them. Good luck doing that to something shelling your spawn room shield from 200+ meters away.

So this, again, boils down to "It shouldn't be able to get where I am." Yeah, sorry, that's not how things work. What's your next argument, "Defenders can defend too well, put the control point outside of the base?" "Attackers can't attack as good, they should capture twice as quickly as defenders need to defend?"

MAXes are meant to force you to change your tactics and get you used to changing them. When a MAX comes in, you prioritize it, because if you don't, he fills you with lead. If you think a group can just rush up and face a MAX or two, obviously you're going to get schooled, so you bring in the right equipment - Decimators, AV Grenades, C4, AP mines. It's not that hard as long as you've got a remotely competent group of players. Otherwise, by your logic, anyone should be able to go on huge killstreaks no problem, and clearly there are some very bad MAX players out there - the ones who think they are Rambo because they have a MAX, rush the enemy, and promptly get their face planted in the ground.

350 resources is still a commitment. You can get those back quicker if you're a subscriber, yes, but not instant, and even if you could you have a cooldown timer unless you dump enough certs to reduce it to five minutes (which takes 2441 certs). The simple fact of the matter is that you can't always pull a MAX, so if you do pull one, you'd better make as much use out of it as you can get - because when you're a MAX, it's a huge "Shoot me!" target. (Next is, of course, the guy with the white helmet.)

The best counters for a MAX will always be explosives and group fire. 3-4 people shooting a MAX will melt its armor. Treat it like that and it becomes easy, solo it and it wrecks your face. The whole point is when a MAX stomps up, you change your tactics to deal with it, just like vehicles.

You're not supposed to solo a MAX. Get 2-3 guys who are shooting him with Decimators and the MAX is toast regardless of that engineer support, Charge, or Flak armor. He's nowhere near impossible to kill, he's just harder with Engineer support, just like it's harder to take a TF2 Heavy down if he's paired with a Medic. TF2 is a game meant for smaller groups of players, so yes, a Sniper needs to be able to take him out in one shot. Planetside 2 is balanced against groups of players, and so you sometimes need groups to take out a target like a MAX. Call out the MAX and more often than not eventually some group will go and wreck it. Throw some grenades before you try to pop the MAX, that will cause his engineer support to scurry away. When fighting a MAX with support, you have to think psychologically to break them up, you can't just blindly shoot unless you want to take a risk of getting killed.

And yet you're still saying "If they can go where infantry can go, they're not balanced," when I've clearly demonstrated that they're just fine balance-wise as long as you get a group of people trying to take them out.

Well then by that logic, let's make things like they were in Planetside 1. Let's make it so all tanks have one person whose ONLY purpose is to drive the tank, and the other people are the ones who actually get to shoot.

It won't happen. Why? Because it's a free-to-play game and it's decidedly boring, that's why. It'd greatly cut down on the number of Spawn Room Shellers, but it'd also mean we'd see a hell of a lot less tanks out there because nobody wants to give up the certs. The only way it'd work is if the driver got the same amount of XP/Certs for every kill his gunners made.

The MAX is capable of gunning down a bunch of people, yes. But it's also easier to kill than Vehicles, in a way, because that vehicle's usually got stuff that can tell it if someone is sneaking up, can hit you well before you can hit it, and - let's not forget - most vehicles are immune to small arms fire. This is why you get a nice chunk of XP for killing a vehicle, but only normal kill XP for taking down a MAX.

MAXes are simply not as big of a problem as you think they are. They're balanced out pretty well, they're extremely deadly in good hands, but they're also crap in poor ones. You have to understand how to play as a MAX to really make the most of it. I've seen terrible MAXes. I've killed terrible MAXes. And then I've fought MAXes who were just so damn good that I had to approach them in a different way to score my hit.

Long story short, they're not nearly as unfair as you think they are. They're only unfair if you think a solo player should be able to take down a MAX, and that's simply not what the game is balanced against.

Yes, current situation is better - break stelmate not by individual skill of players, tactics etc. but by pressing "I WIN" button. Losing fight because one side decided to bring 5 MAXes to 10vs10 battle is broken mechanic and should be fixed ASAP.

From what Im reading here all MAX defenders try to force on us a simple dogma - MAXes are necessary because without them game will be boring, long bla bla bla. Sorry, but Im 100% sure that this game will be much more fun and balanced in terms of infrantry game play without MAXes. And honestly, there is absolutly nothing in this game that can't be achieved without pulling MAXes but - and there is tricky part - it will be harder to achieve, it will require more time, skill and coordination. And this is something that common casual player hates: a challange. So we still have this ******** thing in this great game. So just every brainded player can pull his skillsuit, kill few guys and flex his muscles because of all the gratness he represents.

And btw. You are another MAX defender who is talking about counters to MAXes and forgeting simple and obvius to anyone else truth: people who are trying to kill MAX arent the only ones with common sense. You all act like MAXes and their support are bunch or morons who just wait to be outplayed. In reality they mostly have similar level of skill and preparation as rivals, and if some well coordinated outfit decides to use MAXes than you lost the battle and you can't do nothing about. You are the one who got outplayed... well not exactlu because pressing I WIN button has nothing to do with outplaying anyone.

And tanks aren't an easy button? How about Vanguard Shield for NC tanks? How about old ZOE for VS MAXes? How about lolpods for aircraft before those got toned down? There's always an "easy button" but those generally involve things for which there is no real good counters. MAXes do not meet that qualification in any sense anymore since ZOE got brought back down to sensible levels.

There's tons of things that needed balancing in the game; that situation is now down to a few that aren't so easy as "change some numbers." MAXes aren't the problem, because while anyone can rack up a few kills in a MAX suit, the only way you're going to go on a 20-kill tear is if you have some proper support and know what you're doing.

Your attempt to show it's "broken" is laughable, by the way. If one side's packing five MAXes in a 10v10 battle, sure, they're likely to take whatever they had unless the other side also pulls MAXes. But it also means they're utterly crippled for getting to the next fight with a single point of failure. It means they're flying a Gal or a Sundy, and with a few Skyguards, Tanks, or just plain dudes with Rocket Launchers, that vehicle's got a good chance of getting smoked and killing them all.

Remember, MAXes can't go into everything and anything - basically only the heavier vehicles, so stuff like Gals and Sundies (exception is the Flash I think, and that can seat a single other person). Having a ton of MAXes means also needing to have the transportation support to bring them to the next fight - without that, the push is going to be considerably more limited, stretched, and vulnerable to a counter-push.

Well if you're going to pull that logic, why is aircraft in the game? After all, you can blow tanks up without them. For that matter, why are tanks in the game, since you can just attack on foot? How about this, why don't we just remove all vehicles, all faction-specific guns, and in the name of utterly perfect balance, everyone fights with NS weaponry.

The answer: Because it's utterly stupid, because it raises the skill ceiling to levels that will turn casual players off, and because that heavily discourages people who don't have eight hours a day to play Planetside 2 from playing. The game is supposed to be fun for everyone, not just Major League Gokus who Kamehameha their way through everything. There's nothing wrong with being a high-skilled player, but if there's no MAXes, there's simply no chance for lesser players to have an even remote shot against players of that caliber.

MAXes do help bridge that gap somewhat - but of course, is extremely punishable if the player tries to Rambo with it, can't be pulled again for at least five minutes (and up to ten) if they get wasted fast, and even then, can't be pulled if they don't have 350 more Infantry resources - which is about 45% of the Infantry Resource limit of 750. Cutting off defenders from their supply lines dries out their passive resource gains, and eventually, that means the capability to pull MAXes will also grind to a halt.

MAXes are a part of Planetside lore; MAXes aren't going to go away. Furthermore, it's not in SOE's interest to make them go away, because it does let anyone strap on a suit and get a few kills, and it does let that more casual player feel useful as opposed to farmed when he runs up against hot-stuff outfits who boast high skill. Be happy they decided not to resurrect BFRs, because if you thought MAXes were bad, go ahead and mention those to anyone who played the original - and be prepared for an earful.

By and large, you'd be amazed at how many stupid he-man Rambo MAXes there are, honestly. I see lone MAXes without support fairly often; they don't live for very long. If there's an organized outfit pulling them, then yes, you're going to lose the fight generally, because unless you're in an outfit, or running with one, your most organized cohesion is a loosely-organized zerg, and a loose zerg is basically down to luck as to whether they pull MAXes and push back.

But, of course, you're completely ignoring the fact that your example is also fallacious - your very own words: "And if some well coordinated outfit decides to use MAXes."

So we're going to cry how they're overpowered now because a well-organized outfit can use them better than the average player? Where's the limit? Do you even realize how tricky balance is in that it needs to be good enough for even a blithering idiot to use, and yet not so good that heavily-experienced players can wreck face with it? Frankly, I'm glad suggestions like this generally don't get listened to, because it'd make the game suck for probably about 2/3rds of its playerbase (not everyone is a 1337 MLG pro!) just to soothe a handful of egos for players who, for some reason or another, can't kill them or think they're somehow exempt from the fact that they should be working as part of a team, not solo.

This is why ZOE got reworked. It was way too strong, about half the VS used it, and now it's been brought much more down to Earth by being made more situational and less "give me your gibs." The MAX, as it is, is capable of devastating stuff if an organized outfit elects to bring a ton of them, but that outfit is then hampered in mobility, needs a relatively high level of support from both Engineers and Medics, and the side they're attacking will generally do a counter-push on them.

MAXes are good at one thing, and one thing only: Killing people. They do not capture points, they can't hack shield generators, they can't man AV/AA defenses. The sooner people realize this, the sooner we can move on to the ACTUAL balance issues in the game, like that bases generally have designs that can be camped, vehicles can basically spawnlock defenders to their single protected spawnroom, and so on.

I like maxes the way they are. They are a fun challenge and are a nice change of pace from regular infantry.

Well said.

People in a loose zerg also have poor timing when they pull their MAXes. The people who try to solely rack up lots of points with them end up losing their MAX and resources early on in a fight and not having enough resources to pull another when an organized unit decides to pull MAXes on them.

So you're saying that in a 1v1 with all things equal including player skill and experience in a close quarters combat situation, you want the heavy to win, right? Also, it always costs resources to pull a MAX. Everything else that other infantry classes have that cost resources are optional(and without cooldown).

Who says the MAX needs to be balanced against a heavy assault? Why does it need to be balanced against a heavy assault?
Why do you keep going back to this 1v1 scenario? Why a heavy assault?

Why do YOU need a heavy assault to easily beat a MAX in close quarters, or to go back to your idea of MAXes becoming ranged support, why do you want MAXes out of all close quarters gameplay?

bad players main Max. they either lack skill or attitidude. or even both

So does playing when there is too many standard infantry, so hey. It's balanced, in the end.

I have seen lots of good maxplayers. And the lack of skill is probably on the recieving end since it's not that hard to launch a few rockets at a big target who is slow to dodge.

And if you try to take one on in close combat you have made a critical error and die because of it.

there is no such thing as "good maxplayers". there are only good or bad players. playing max doeesn't require any special skill set unlike, for example, flying.
A bad player can be a threat in a noob suit and a good player can totally own with it.

also there are lots of players in this threat that give great advice how to kill them easy although their stats indicate that they can't do that either.
and, as always, many "dedicated maxplayers" are defending their cheezy playstyle, trying to fool everyone.
Well, you can't

https://players.planetside2.com/#!/5428168624800886609/weapons

is this you?

Well then, call it good players if that makes any difference.
A new player can probably get a couple of kills but it's not that good as some people make it seem. They are very vulnerable to C4, rockets and is not in any way invulnerable against small arms fire. And they require resources to spawn so they should be better than regular infantry.
And yes that's my TR character. Im a mediocre player at best and i wouldn't make it especially long if my teammates wasn't supporting me since it's easy to kill an unsupported max.

Oh, and im not really a dedicated maxplayer. I have played for maybe 3 weeks on other characters and tried most classes and vehicles and yesterday i happened to try the TR max

sorry tanks can't get into areas where infantry can, but infantry can get into areas where tanks can but you know what's funny?MAXes can get into areas where infantry can, that contradicts, kills everything you said there.

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Also on the topic, 1 fully certed kinetic MAX has HP of 17 non-nanoweaved medics rofl(1k each), that is blatantly overpowed.

Combine that with 2x Onslaughts=1000 RPM and the ability to eat two rockets without flak boooom IM RETRDEDLY OP and i have CHARGE to basicaly never die if i play careful.

On top on that ALL consider the fact that you only need 350 Infantry resources which you get 2x faster than those who don't run subscription(the majority) and consider the fact that you can get ressurected and even when you die you can spawn it again after SO MUCH TIME MAN, 300seconds.

After all i'm pretty damn sure this nonsense will be toned down but i don't want to wait another year.

Btw Great idea SOE, throw a Unit with 17times more HP and with 1000 RPM into infantry fights to 'help' capture and defend points. you deserve applauds, this is all coming from a veteran player.

I can't see a reason not to tone down the MAXes after this discussion. 1 thing that i concluded after all this is that MAXes are currently 'training wheels' for the mediocre(in my eyes horrible) players, who want to have it easy mode while at the same time inputtng literally 0 effort, that's what the 'MAX defenders/players' have proven for the past few days gentlemen.


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(rofl to the guy who said MAXes are support units, get better at the game guy whoever you are)

P.S. i didn't even mention NC shotgun faceroll MAX or the VS hold LMB and kill people up to 20metres ez. and i'm tired of writing that infantry classes aren't free of deploying proof which kills 'but.. but ..MAXes cost resources' argument.

Poor argument here... You do realize that AIR can get to places Infantry can't get to... Like that Rock Mesa near Cross Roads and near Regeant Rock... So this is your argument against tank mentioning. In fact, air can be in places nothing can get there BUT air, and when infantry is not properly armed to deal with air... Get owned by air.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Also on the topic, 1 fully certed kinetic MAX has HP of 17 non-nanoweaved medics rofl(1k each), that is blatantly overpowed.

Combine that with 2x Onslaughts=1000 RPM and the ability to eat two rockets without flak boooom IM RETRDEDLY OP and i have CHARGE to basicaly never die if i play careful.
[/quote]

Note this one thing... 'if i play careful(ly)'... Thing is, a MAX player HAS to play carefully to be 'blatantly overpowered'. If you aren't, you are not going to last very long in general. However, your argument is catered to the belief that you can do whatever you want to be 'blatantly overpowered', which again, is not true.

Note... You are now arguing about a MAX based on players who are paying for a subscription, which means not only faster for them for a MAX, but this also includes Air and Tank resources, which would apply to the other earlier points made by others. You also keep forgetting the simple fact that resources are also TIED to how many locations your faction owns and is connected to. So a MAX isn't coming back 'fast' if you are resource starved. And from experienced as a subscribed player in cut off locations, resource starvation still hurts, even with subscription giving you the ability to get more resources faster.

And again... Throw a unit that can't be affected by small arms fire or by the default rocket launcher because it requires pure luck to hit a moving flying mortar cannon or mbt level gun in the air for one simple snapshot that will own infantry and the only place infantry has a chance of not having that involved is 1 major based called a Biolab, but any efforts to push out of that biolab is stopped short by that same thing once again.

Sorry, the argument you are making is still foolishly flawed.

Actually, what you are asking is also being 'training wheels' for your inability to deal with them as well. You want it dumbed down so that you (singular) can deal with MAX armors, when a lot of us (plural) have been dealing with them since the original game and in this game in various ways. You attribute them to having '0 effort' and your only real effort is trying to max kinetic armor, charge and dual onslaughts as your argument about how OP they are... Except, the configuration has been dual hacksaws on an NC MAX which is the 'ultimate' gripe machine that people have as far as AI based MAX armors are, and even then, it has to fall under certain conditions to really make it 'viable'

I think at this point, you are just trolling and leaving this argument. You have failed to really reasonably argue anything beyond this foolish tirade that you want it to be reasonable, but brought nothing more than just insults and lack of something reality based. You also have been rather insulting on your responses, that it pretty much is bereft of anything on the level of a discussion and just more of "F you all, and F you MAX users, cause you all suck."

And personally, you need to just stop playing the game... Obviously, you want a game like Battlefield 4 than this game. Please actually leave this game and play that, because there is no way anyone is going to make you 'happy' with this game... And those of us who do enjoy this game, with MAX armors, will continue to play and tweak it with more reasonable thought than wanting to kludge this to being a Battlefield 4 game that you seem to be leaning towards.

I had a "fun" battle today. Numbers 48+ on both sides, but attackers couldn't do anything because NC (defenders) build a wall of MAXes. Oh, we tossed stun and smoke grenades etc, but tell me - how many MAXes can be killed in those few seconds and another question: how many people can MAX kill while they are reloading their rocket launchers? Answer is: if defenders pull MAX horde that means you just lost the battle.
Oh, we tried tanks too. What happened? MAXes went to spawn room, changed weapons and destroyed tanks. Why? Well, maybe because it takes 2 direct hits from Lightning AP cannon to take down MAX and if by any chance MAX have engi and good defensive position than You can do 180 and go home.

As infrantry: no chances. As tanks: no chances. Perfectly balanced? Ye, go suit up your skillsuit and live in a dream world because in reality you are just to weak to play anything that requires any decent FPS skill.

Most hilarious thing about MAX users is that they really believe that this crap is fine. Its like talking to religious fanatics or arguing with a women. No arguments will grant you victory because they will just scream, cry and act like they have won.

P.S. Most hilrious thing I have read here - MAX in open space is easy to kill. So is everything else.

Hello.

You guys need to remain on-topic and constructive conversation. Play nice and follow the rules or I will lock the thread.

Then why didn't you use your own skillsuits? And if you're saying that army of heavy assaults with rockets and AV nades are helpless against MAXes... uhm, yeah of course, "AV nades? nade bandolier? NOT CERTED"

You do realise that defending with MAXes is easier than attacking with them? Especially in close quarters when most people who are dead stay dead because there is now way medic can stay around long enough to revive that fallen MAX.

Flawed logic - AV grenades (even with bandolier) are not I WIN button against MAXes. In fact they are only good if there arent any medics around. Another fun fact is that AV nade doesn't OHK MAX. I dont know the exact numbers but AV+deci or 2xAV = dead MAX (and considering blast radius of AV greandes you have to be extremely lucky or skilled to hit one target two times with it). And im talking about single MAX unit. And what if I go upstairs in tower and see 3 or more of them? You can do whatever you want, they will just fire in general direction of their enemies and everything will drop dead anyway because of firepower they have and in case of NC ones they dont need to aim that good to hit anything anyway.

2 AV grenades to kill a MAX. They have the blast radius of C4 pretty much with the added bonus that you can throw them way further than a LA can. It is an investment, since you need the grenade bandolier to carry more than one, but it's also a room cleaner.

Another misconception about MAXes firepower. The combined arms produce DPS similar to a low tier carbine (VS & TR MAXes, the NC one has the DPS of a normal shotgun in each arm). You do not die from a MAX because you are outgunned, you die because you are outlived.

Yes, im aware of that (and also I have fully certed bandolier) but still it works perfect only in theory. It almost impossible with all the led flying in the air to get two good hits on one MAX.

I have to disagree with that firepower thing when we are talking about NC MAXes. Maybe they dont have great DPS but their burst damage is sick. You have more chances of running/hiding from VS/TR ones but again - you cant kill them sitting behind cover whole day.

Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. The only time an infantry will even go into an enemy vehicle area is in the hopes of sabotaging something and it's usually a suicide mission, just like running up to a tank to plant some C4 into it. You don't need to suicide run versus a MAX - you can effectively peek-a-boo it, and a lot of players do exactly that.

Vehicles, you don't get that luxury unless they're up close, since your only answers are the dumbfire launchers, and even though the Decimator is the best, you have to really account for rocket drop after 100m or so due to the fact they made it as heavy as the Tsar Bomba. Anything past that, you're basically boned, because it will hit you with splash and it will likely be able to dodge your shot (you're suicidal if you're using a lock-on rocket and it can hit you). MAXes usually aren't that mobile, and so it's fully possible to peek-a-boo them to death and to count on the typical MAX Player's mindset ("Let's go kill this guy!") to set up effective traps to kill them.

PS: Tanks don't need to get into areas where only infantry can, all they need to do is shell the crap out of every exit. Effective result: Total area denial, far worse than even a whole group of MAXes could reasonably pull. If you play this game long enough, you'll be on one side or the other of a fight and a base that changes hands exactly this way.

It's also blatantly dead, since a single C4 will smoke that MAX and a Decimator won't leave it with much more health - remember, MAXes take extra damage from C4. Anyone who certs into Kinetic Armor is borderline foolish since anyone who knows how to fight a MAX will immediately pull out either a Rocket Launcher, C4, AV Grenades or AP Mines. You'll always take small-arms fire as a MAX, but the small arms fire is generally manageable without any extra resistance as long as you've got some support and aren't being shot by six people at once - explosives, on the other hand, will absolutely melt your armor without extra protection. That 25% explosives resistance means that 1200 damage Decimator shot is 900 HP assuming a near-miss (a direct hit will do the full 1200), which is 45% of your armor melted in one shot.

Rambo MAXes may well like near-imperviousness to bullets, but anyone who knows what they're doing will pick Flak Armor as you shore up the MAX's major weakness - 75% explosive reduction (25% base, plus 50% from Flak Armor) makes that 1200 damage Decimator do a mere 300 HP of damage or so if it doesn't hit you directly head-on. That's a heck of a lot more survivable, and you're forcing your enemies to basically land direct hits with dodge-able rockets - well worth the price. Kinetic Armor may make bullets tickle you even more, but they sure won't save you from Rockets - and *ANY* C4 will kill you outright even if you're not in the middle of its blast radius.

If you're the only one shooting the MAX, then of course it seems OP. Again, MAXes were not balanced to be fought against by lone-wolf Rambos. You can do it if you're clever, but you're not supposed to be able to reliably do it time-in, time-out. When you see a MAX, you're supposed to have a small group of 3-6 people shooting it. If even half of those dudes have Rocket Launchers and a reliable ability to hit a slow-moving target, you've got one dead MAX.

Your problem is you want MAXes to be balanced against single infantrymen. That's not how they work. They're basically a walking vehicle; treat them like that and you'll begin to understand how to counter MAXes. After all, you usually don't solo Lightnings or MBTs either, do you?

"Only" 350 infantry resources. That's 45% of the limit of them.

PS: You're again demonstrating a lack of awareness of game mechanics. 300 seconds is with a maxed-out reduction in timer acquisition - which costs 2441 Certs, and so as a result, especially for non-subscribers or people who don't buy Station Cash, it'll take them awhile to get it. Without a single cert spent on reducing the timer, acquisition timers are as follows.

• Galaxy/Liberator/Sunderer/MBT: 20 Minutes (1200 Seconds)
• Lightning/ESF: 15 Minutes (900 Seconds)
• MAX: 10 Minutes (600 Seconds)
• Flash: 5 Minutes (300 Seconds)

With a maxed-out Reduce Acquisition Timer, you can shave all of those down to five minutes (exception is the Flash, which can be re-pulled instantly). You can be sure that someone who's able to bring a MAX down to five minutes has certainly played the game for awhile, since it'd take forever to get 2441 certs by pure +12 Passive gain a day and even with +48 it'd still take plenty of time.

That said, this may all become moot once the new resource system is in later this year, since they said part of that will involve getting rid of acquisition timers entirely, unifying all resources into one type, and thus having the cost of the thing entirely dependent on how many resources you have as opposed to timers plus three separate types.

Also, you do realize subscription is basically "Pay to not grind," right? It's Freemium. You either pay with time, or you pay with cash money. You can still get access to all of the abilities of a subscriber - just a bit slower.

Lastly, you defeat your own point by saying "If I play carefully." Well of course if you play carefully you'll live longer and kill more people. That's something that can apply to all classes, not just MAXes. How do I stay alive longer than five minutes on average per life as a squishy? Because I'm a chicken-****, that's how. I don't rush into rooms without support, I look around for my surroundings, and I keep to more rearward lines. As a result, I get plenty of certs healing, rezzing, and getting a kill every few minutes.

Stupid idea for reasons I mentioned above. If they're certed into Kinetic, they melt to explosives. START PACKING EXPLOSIVES. There's literally no reason to not run around without a brick of C4 on your Combat Medic for emergency MAX/Vehicle kills just in case - and it's gotten me a few MAX and vehicle kills. (Most recently, just last night, when some idiot drove a Sunderer I was in to an enemy base, where it promptly met a Lightning, and I was able to shell it, bail before the Sundy got blew up, jump on the Lightning's hood, plop the C4, and explode the Lightning. Felt good for me, but I'm sure s/he didn't enjoy it all that much.)

Or it's proven you somehow think you should be able to solo a MAX or that they should be made effectively worthless.

Play him away, Xan Kriegor.

• NC MAX: Neutered by distance. Get outside of 20m and it basically tickles.
• VS MAX: Low overall damage unless they are ZOE (but then they're also taking more).
• TR MAX: All-around average, but nothing special.

PS: MAXes being easy to kill by explosives DOES kill your argument. Stop shooting the MAX. Start blowing it up instead. Once you do, MAXes become far less troublesome to deal with.

Now where were your AV grenades, C4, and AP Mines?

What? You didn't have any?

Well, no wonder you lost. Blinding MAXes for a few seconds and then using only rockets isn't going to do anything to actually HURT them in a major way or kill off their support, now will it?

Sounds like only a few people were shooting the MAXes then, as the MAX is going to generally only shoot one tank at a time - he can't do enough damage to the Lightnings to soften up a whole group.

Also, if you had no MBTs, then obviously that's a problem, since an MBT, if fully manned, should be able to scare the MAX off.

Sounds more to me like your group didn't know what the hell it was doing as opposed to the MAXes being impossible to kill.

...You're really going to bring misogyny *AND* intolerance into this thread? Come on, man. Keep your private feelings about that crap to yourself. Stick to the game here, like a mature adult.

I don't think anyone who's wise about game mechanics will call AV Grenades an "I WIN" button against MAXes - they're not. What they will do, though, is drive them back and have them scurry for support, or if they got weakened enough, it can kill them. Nothing in the game will ever one-shot a MAX, but several things will get them to back up.

You counter a room full of MAXes with a room full of Rocket/C4-wielding Heavies and Engies with AV Grenades/AP Mines/C4. If they're packed in that thickly, you don't even need to aim very well - just chuck and duck. The AP mines are very helpful in weeding out the Engineers/Medics supporting them, as well, and they'll do some residual damage to the MAXes to boot.

C4 and AP mines? Tell me you are joking ok. Ok, heres a thing. There is big room filled with enemies. Big bunch of them are MAXes. And yet, you expect that anyone will get pass through and plant some mines on the ground and ofc all MAXes will run to it like bugs to the light? Maybe you are aware of game mechanics but you certainly dont know anything about how it works in reality.
Let me explain. You throw smoke/stun grenade through door and every smart defender will do the only thing that can be done - he will hold his trigger if he aimed in those doors. Its called suppresive fire. You propably heard that before. Sure, few attackers will get through, but most likely they will be stripped of their shield or just scared away. In first case they are just easy targets for the people who were to far away to be affected by smoke/stun. You cant simply do C4/mine run in to heavily defended room. And in case of C4 - you have to live long enough to detonate it.

Private feelings? Yes, those are private feelings of person who is tired of people whos only strenght is that their cooldown on skillsuit reched zero and in the same time they act high and mighty like they are God knows who. For me? Remove MAXes for one week and you will see how many of those "skilled" players will be online in that time. And how much more fun infrantry battles will be.