The end of the NC as we know it?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Jachim, Dec 8, 2013.

  1. Axehilt

    Population really isn't much of an indicator of weapons balance.

    If you calculated the empire with the mathematically-provable worst weapons, but gave them the most population, then (surprise!) they're going to have the most territory. Although nowadays triple-poplock is more common so this situation was probably just the VS and TR fighting each other resulting in a lot of NC territory. So nothing shown here is really any indicator of anything.
    • Up x 1
  2. Zazen

    Same thing is happening across all servers I play on. Ever since it was announced the game was finally getting balanced in mid-Dec, a lot of NC have started playing again. Also, a lot of bored TR & VS mains made an NC alt to play...No new content for a long time = nothing to look forward to.. Once they start making new content again, people will return to their mains. I haven't played my NC in a few months (BR100 w/ nothing to buy) , been playing VS & TR.

    Just on my friend's list alone, 10 people have come back, anxiously awaiting the Dec balance patch.
    • Up x 2
  3. Epic High Five


    FROM CAPITALISM'S BLACK HEART WE RISE
    • Up x 4
  4. Xasapis

    It's actually the best indication of perceived weapon balance. In the end, the perceived balance becomes real balance, since two weapons will always be better than one, regardless of quality.

    Also, lets look it from another angle. Would you buff the most populated empire worldwide and reinforce the population imbalance, or give those buffs to the underpopulated sides and strive for more balanced population. I fear that NC are again a victim of their own popularity.
  5. Epic High Five


    I'm pretty sure TR are the ones that dominate the game-wide population charts, not NC.

    Anyway, I would give the boost to NC not because of anything to do with pop, but because they're underperforming in a majority of key metrics, across the board.

    The devs job is not to ensure population balance by tilting the playing field, it's to provide a level playing field and let it settle naturally. The data is saying that the playing field is not level somehow, so of course they're going to look into it.
    • Up x 4
  6. NovaAustralis

    Subtle...

    How about I point out this:
    The NC have a 42% population on Indar (huge population %) and yet they only own about half the territory?
    If TR had that population or VS had that population you would see the other two factions warp-gated.

    NC is under-powered even when over-popped.

    (See this on Briggs all the time.
    When NC occasionally get a dominant population % we push out of our 'corner' but not much further.
    But usually TR and VS are pressing hard on all fronts and we have sweet F A resources...)
    • Up x 3
  7. Xasapis

    No, it's actually NC and they are the most popular for more than a month now, though this month their popularity is more apparent. NC don't have the population gap TR had during summer, but they are indeed the most popular empire right now. Their numbers are also rising as times goes by (it seems as if the CU2 events repeat themselves).

    So, would you further buff an empire that it's population is clearly on the rise, which will cause more population imbalance, faster?
  8. disgruntled newbie

    The fact that players can slosh back and forth tipping population wildly in every direction makes any discussion about balance extremely problematic. Having 40% of people be NC at a particular instant doesn't prove much of anything. People aren't playing NC because they think it's a better faction, they're playing it because the XP multiplier favors switching en-masse to the losing side after a certain point. I can supply screenshots of TR and VS having 40% population too. It varies by the hour. Personally I think there needs to be some design work into encouraging people to NOT switch faction constantly and actually pick a side and settle there. Then once the dust settles and people get experienced with their given faction, we can get a much better impression of what the balance is like especially on a perceived-balance basis.
    • Up x 3
  9. Alarox

    The game is mostly balanced.
    • Up x 1
  10. Epic High Five


    I don't know, they implemented ZOE at the same time they released the metrics proving that the VS MAX not only performed the best of all the MAXes, but actually had been doing so since the launch of the game.

    I don't think they take population into account, because it also works the opposite way of what you're worried about in your post. SOE comes out and says, "okay, NC really need some help in some areas (which they've already said), but we're not going to give them any attention because they've got too many people" well guess what, NC overpop isn't a problem anymore because all the people who came back hoping SOE had figured out the NC thing leave again. Hell, I left for awhile because the only faction I'd considering playing for seemed so rudderless and tossed aside.

    Population changes too much for it to be a serious factor - if the TR or VS can't handle the NC finally having functioning AI vehicle secondaries and a MAX that isn't crap for the first 3k certs well tough **** and L2P because apparently the NC have been doing fine against it.

    Are you seriously proposing that making exmags not mandatory for the NC MAX and lowering the cost of slugs to 1 cert (to encourage use in the same way that's done with vehicle weapons) is going to cause a shattering of game balance?
    • Up x 3
  11. NC_agent00kevin

    This is more of an anomaly than anything. NC dont typically hold population majority on Waterson. What happens is 4th factioners jump ship when it looks grim on an alert. Ive seen TR with 17% server pop before, but that doesnt mean they have 17% regularly. Ive also seen VS with population majority too, but that doesnt mean they regularly hold it.
    • Up x 2
  12. Xasapis

    Yes, checking worldwide population balance per week or month is a good indication of which empire people perceive as stronger or more fun to play. Alert balance is not much of an indication, since people are:
    • Oblivious to the changes made to the alert rewards
    • Don't understand how pitifully low said reward is to begin with (assuming a non dominating victory, it's about 20 kills which will happen in less than 10 minutes in any decent fight).
  13. Furrydaus

    Please fellow NC we should not whine and whine and whine and whine again and again :mad: about us having the badest equipment and have to put bodies forward to actually be able to capture a base. (Kinda funny how the NC are supposed to be like that :p ) BUT we should make use of what we have because remember! Our weapons are EXPERIMENTAL :eek: and STOLEN o_O from the TR so its normal to be actually whining but do know your limits guys. Higby will help us sooner or later by sending troops of hair that says buff all over them!:D (Idk if they have white vanu scum hanging around the hair though... maybe that expplains why higby doesnt notice us anymore. :eek:)
    • Up x 1
  14. Xasapis

    The reason behind VS MAX performing with lesser numbers is a bit of an ancient history and I'll leave it there, unless you want me to elaborate.

    I don't think that obvious issues shouldn't be corrected, quite the opposite. Under performing things should be brought on par with the rest of the empires, both upwards and downwards (not like VS doesn't have their own set of issues, which are unfortunately shadowed by the ZOE whining).

    Still, lets buff NC so that the population gap widens even more and lets nerf VS so they drop back to 28% or less on almost all servers, like the times of CU2 (which I see them repeated).

    It is definitely a tough puzzle to solve. On one hand, certain buffs are needed on certain areas, while nerfs are needed in others. On the other hand, these buffs and nerfs have the potential to imbalance the already in precarious state game. I don't know about you, but a platoon fighting a squad in a base is no fun for either sides. So what SOE should do?

    (Edit: Slugs are an option that VS/TR MAXes don't really have. If I was SOE, I'd cut the ammo capacity of current TR/VS MAXes in half, which would make it fair for NC MAXes without extended magazines not being able to kill other MAXes and then add a second magazine tier to bring the final number to what it is today. Total cost would be the cost of NC extended magazines plus slugs)
  15. Furrydaus

    If you guys do know, the NC on Briggs usually dominate the Vanu and the TR! But sadly thats just Briggs.... (Funny how Briggs is actually a part of Vanu and that Vanu isnt really involved in much battles with this server
  16. Epic High Five


    They're pretty much stuck doing the only thing that's realistically an option for them, seeing as they cannot force people (or even incentive them without xfers) to move to a server where X faction is sorely needed. They have to just try to level the playing field and hope that pops adjust accordingly. I know VS is dropping on a lot of servers, but you don't have to go far to see that a good part of that isn't people running to the NC because they think they're about to become the FOTM (hint: we're not, I promise), it's because on a lot of servers the VS just can't find a good fight in or out of primetime. Everybody is so sick of fighting endless swarms of ZOE that the NC and TR tend to just focus on each other, leaving the VS to back cap largely undefended territory and sit on their thumbs.

    Make the NC more appealing and better able to compete on the levels where it's hilariously behind, and I think the VS pops will actually rise a bit because it wont be so boring.

    Like tonight on Mattherson, where a zerg of at least 250+ came rolling through indar ex and all the way to Hvar in maybe 15 minutes. There was no defending against it, so NC command just said "**** it" and went all out against the TR front. That particular zerg was a bit of a perfect storm situation (as KomradeVirtunov reported, it was a giant buildup of VS from an earlier push on Saurva that just kind of...exploded southward) but it's also representative.
  17. shd

    I've noticed a lot of people making Nc alts lately. The game is over a year old and the population isn't anything spectacular, a lot more veterans about then new guys. Guess people have played their TR/VS chars out and it's either NC alt or quit :)
    • Up x 1
  18. Xasapis

    Personally I think it's just a repeat of the CU02 update. If you recall, at the time prior to the Magrider gutting, VS were dropping in population and they took a nose dive when the nerfs gone live. I see the same behavior today and I predict again a nose dive drop in VS population when the VS nerfs go live.

    The majority of the VS refugees seem to pick the NC as their fall back empire. If I had to brave a guess as to why, I'd say that NC play a bit differently than the more similar infantry play of TR, while having vehicles equal if not better than their VS counterparts.
  19. Larolyn

    On Cobalt just recently I am noticing a trend of dwindling Vanu forces and rising NC numbers. Almost as if Vanu players are abandoing their ZOEs and preparing for the NC buff. As if they prefer to play with perceived op weapons and will not use perceived up weapons. Strange that.

    Also the NC alliance has been a huge success. Thanks to everyone involved in getting that moving forward. And 2 of the the biggest outfits have now merged their teamspeak channels and dropped the animosity between them. It has made a huge difference to the atmosphere and morale of the NC on Cobalt. And NC still have amazingly stupid pubbies. But even before the ZOE nerf and the NC buff, on Cobalt at least, you can feel a paradigm switch coming. NC are gaining momentum and numbers. The numbers may be a problem as they appear to be coinciding with a reduced Vanu population. That in itself speaks volumes to me about the VS playerbase...
  20. Xasapis

    VS on Miller have a bit of an odd problem. Usually both NC and TR decide to push and warpgate in both directions the VS. Since you can't really fight both empires in both fronts, you end up focusing on one. The other gets bored, attack the other one, which means now somebody else is double teamed and loses ground fast. Eventually NC & TR focus exclusively on each other and get pushed all the way down by VS ... until they realise it and then both focus on VS and warpgate us ... in a perpetual circle.