Dasanfall Stats Site is biased now

Ender I have respect for both you and Jak and I've liked your DA site and the stats it has provided. While I acknowledge that you pay for the site and that 50ShadesOfPurple put it together would it be possible to try and make a system that introduces even more ways to gauge vehicle skill into the website? I mean sure using a tank and rolling around in zerg does not take skill. But what of the people like myself, Phrygen, Calsari, Klypto, Bryno, and others who stay alive in giant platoons verse platoon battles where most MBT's die almost instantly? What of myself and Phyrgen getting huge kill streaks under dangerous circumstances when DA, GOTR, NNG, QRY, and the TGWW are present and/or we're outnumbered?

There have been numerous times when I've been the last tank up when all or almost all other tanks in the area are dead, yet there I am alongside other infantry helping to make a difference, taking out battle critical sunderers, and taking out other tanks all without Anchormode and while being on the front lines with only around 20 FPS. Is there no noticeable skill involved in being effective at such playstyles within a tank where being attentive for mere moments can result in your tank being flanked or instagibbed?

Then you have the ace pilots on QRY, Notorious, NUC, and the TGWW. Is there no skill involved in what they do? Cswic is an amazing galaxy pilot, does he not also deserve proper recognition on the site for doing what few others can do in a Galaxy while making us all laugh at the same time?

Anyhow Ender I have no say or power with how you handle your site, but it would be cool if your site could become the ultimate combined arms site by quantifying vehicle skill among Tankers,Pilots, and Max users in whole new ways to remove stat padding. Perhaps remove follow up kills that are in close proximity while at the same time being from the same enemy since that would signify spawn camping.You wouldn't want to take into consideration a player getting 4 consecutive kills on the same player within the same minute for instance, simply count the first kill from that streak in that short time period then nullify the rest. Heck you could probably do this for infantry too since they are also capable of spawn camping/ farming. This would also help get rid of accusations of players just spawn camping to pad their KDR regardless of the playstyle.

For instance seeing what the KDR is for HE, HEAT, and AP are then creating a bell curve among Prowler Users, Magrider Users, and Vanguard Users separately. Then doing the same thing for vehicle accuracy for each ES MBT. There could be separate MLG scores and rating for vehicle users or perhaps a combined score which is then able to visually broken down. For instance if I had a high score and then Mustarde next to me had a high score you could quickly expand the MLG score and see he stats are coming from infantry and mine is coming from tanking/vehicles. This is a combined arms game after all and hopefully in the future vehicles will have bigger more important roles and will be more highly regarded playstyles like what Jak and I were supporting in Jak's thread.

I don't get the joke, what does Warp Gate Lap Runners mean? Our task force runs racer 3 and we roll all around the map to support the infantry portion of the outfit. Furthermore I don't see what you get out of being condescending to a perfectly good combined arms outfit which is organized, utilizes tactics, and allows for players who are great at tanking, or simply enjoy it, to hone their skills and effectively utilize their playstyles to have bigger impacts in big battles then they probably could as individual tankers.

I'm think some people are upset that the stat site is going in a direction where it likely won't be cool and awesome for all playstyles, after all I'm sure 50ShadesofPurple could come up with the proper metrics to gauge skill in vehicles. Why limit yourself to just being about infantry when the game is a combined arms game? Wouldn't it be nice to have actual metrics to gauge the skills of all playstyles in the game, or put it this way.. wouldn't it be cool if DA site was the first one to do it on a large scale?

What if you could see who was the most accurate among Prowler Tankers, who has the most aircraft shot down among Magrider users, and who has killed the most MBT's killed among Vanguard Tankers?

But hey if you want to keep making fun of BWC, our armored task force, and some of the very skilled tankers we have within it go ahead. We'll still be having fun taking out Sunderers, tank columns, Galaxies/Liberators, and helping our infantry make pushes in big battles. After all there are tankers out there who are

Pushing up with Infantry

Surviving on the Front Lines

Rolling in Organized Squads which can make a difference in 48V48+ battles and turn the tide of them

And accomplishing all of this while having fun

For the sake of a serious conversation... re-read this sentence very carefully.

Filtered data is done ALL the time, in science, marketing, economics... in fact, some would argue that the raw data most people start with is useless, and only once it is filtered down into something that can be tangible and relevant to a specific concept or experiment does it become relevant.

That DA has a raw data section, a tank section, an air section, and at the top, the IVI section, just shows that they are filtering the data to help players (and those looking at players profiles) have a better understanding of the meaning behind the numbers. In a sense, it is biased, but not in a bad way. It simply shows you a different angle on what is otherwise widely available information from the official PS2 players site. If I wanted to know my KDR, I could go there. But I want to see the breakdown (which for me personally is useless since I mostly snipe haha)... and THAT is what makes their project unique, useful and interesting.

To just say "your data is biased" thus "biased data is worthless" is completely, and I mean completely - missing the point of their site, and represents a very very gross misunderstanding of almost ALL data that you will read or come across in your lifetime. The key is knowing how data is presented and possessing the ability to recognize its limits.

That's all well and good, but unfortunately not everyone only pulls MAX suits when needed, or vehicles when necessary. Some pull them all the time, and only them, and wait to get to a biofarm to actually use them. Like this nub for example. 276h 50m so far in just his MAX suit. That's nearly a third of his playtime. Spent. In a MAX... Am I saying he's a bad player? Probably not. Am I saying he should be recognized for "pulling the right thing at the right time"? No, definitely not.

People abuse the system. DA is merely discrediting those that do nothing but farm with shotties in biofarms, or ZOE MAXes all day every day.

inb4 SOE-MOD-02

I love your website and the effort you've put in it
Please keep it up Dasanfall homoboys!

I had no idea condiments could say something so beautiful and thought out!

I feel offended by your comment, homoboys is way too weak of a word to describe us >:c

You guys are twisted!

Rofl, I love your example, Cloakn...err I mean NumberoneW...uh, Profosho is a friend of ours as well

DA want to measure a player's infantry vs. infantry skill and removed his infantry kills as a MAX, shotgunner, and in vehicles. but did you remove deaths to MAXes, shotgunners, and vehicles?

Im not asking for him to do more work. Im just saying that his work is biased. Sorry if that upsets some but it's how I see things. Not trying to start something, I just really see a lot of bias in this.

As for MAXes. Yes, I'll agree that they are a completely different style of gameplay from the other classes. Just as much as a cloaker is different from a LA. The 6 classes each fill a role and each one can be the deciding factor that ends up winning or losing an infantry fight. Cloakers can use recon darts to flush out campers or raise a bit of hell in both CQC and ranged battle. Engineers are the bones of an infantry fight, without them there would be no ammo or any way to restore a gen or SCU. Medics keep a fight alive for as long as possible. LAs use height to bypass enemy cover. Heavies are the backbone of a fight and vehicles would be gods without them. MAXes are the raw power of infantry at near any task they wish to face with some costs.

The fact is that all 6 of those classes are vital to a fight and no fight is without any of them. You just can't have an infantry fight without each and every class being there. That simply doesn't happen. And seeing how all of them are an important part of an infantry fight and each can turn the tide of that fight, it would be stupid to ignore any of them. It's the same for removing a weapon type.

Your outfit may hold being a better fleshy higher than other stats but you still need MAX users, Tank drivers, Harasser gunners, Sunderer workers, and flyboys to win near any battle. Without those, players tend to become farm for them that have these types of players.

Really anything with splash shouldn't be counted besides weapons that do .5m with splash. It's quite easy to get incredibly high accuracy by padding your stats with a vehicle or a shotgun. They reason why they removed MAXs is probably for the shotgun reason (because all the NC AI weapons are shotguns) and it wouldn't be fair to count VS and TR MAXs without counting NC.

Eh it gets ridiculous at both ends. Both players stat-padding for the default stats, and players stat-padding specifically for whatever arbitrary categorization a site like DA creates. An extreme stat-padder in either case is optimizing for stat-padding usually at the cost of being less helpful to his empire than he should be, which can cause problems if too much of that happens.

Honestly the fact that certain weapons get completely omitted from stats should be a giant red flag to SOE and players that something is broken. In a balanced game you wouldn't have to create domains with very carefully-managed weapons which do or don't count as being "fair". MAXes would simply be another class in the mix. Shotguns would be fine. They would all be part of the "indoor combat" domain which would include everything because nothing would be dramatically overpowered.

Sorry guys, the removal of C4 and shotguns was my fault. Ender was being a little sensitive one night and decided to censor my skills.

You still don't understand the point, this will be my final attempt because I'm getting a bit tired to be honest. Yes, the gameplay of the different infantry classes is not the same, but the core mechanics are the same. This doesn't apply to the MAX due to its durability and to the fact that you can just enter a room and sweep it alone, you can't do that with any infantry class. The skill needed to use a MAX and the skill needed to use any other class are completely different, thus, putting them together for a single stat would be the biased thing.

False, you can perfectly have an infantry fight without MAXes.

I said "for personal reasons".

They are removing data for the sole reason of thinking it isn't worth being there. A personal opinion, not a logical reason.

Even though the raw data is still there, it doesn't change the fact that they are willing to flat out remove data for personal reasons. I simply can't trust a stats site that willingly edits, removes, ignores, or flat out makes up it's own value for data for no reason but because they want to. It isn't fair for anyone but who they want it to be fair to. I don't recall anything that even factors being support into any of their values.

Because it isn't.

https://players.planetside2.com/ < there you go, bad.

There is not any possible way you are going to have an infantry fight without MAXes, shotguns, or sniper rifles though. Unless it is an instanced match such as MLG or Community Clash and those things are banned from the fight. That hasn't happened yet, that I know of, in any event of any type.

It's probably just way harder to come with good vehicle stats, probably due to the fact that you can just get outside the tank and die in the field (or redeploy). And right now I think the Kills/Deaths for the tank subsection just counts your kills as a Tanker vs your deaths against Tankers, in my case it says I have a 2.9 KDR as Tank Score, but if I look at the 3 magrider cannons, all have a KDR much higher than that, so it can't be (plus I'm pretty sure I didn't pull as many as 389 Magriders, no chance lol). The same thing happens with the support gunning part.

It's just easier to estimate infantry vs infantry scores, if you die to an infantry sanctioned weapon you were probably playing as infantry, if you die to AP/HEAT/HE cannon, there's no way to know if you were inside a vehicle or playing as infantry.

Many small scrims between outfits are played without MAXes, just FYI.

Pretty much my problem with it to, lack of transparency, and the percentiles are inaccurate for a lot of things too.

I mean any site is always going to show some bias towards its creator's ideas of what stats are best, which is fine, but there needs to be tranparency in that to ensure people with different ideas of what makes a good player can interpret the stats.

It's DA's site; they can filter it however they like.

That being said, I'm a bit sad that they don't care about all my time working on my slug-shotgun sniping.
D: