When did Farming Become an Entitlement?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by PapaPetro, Sep 22, 2013.

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  1. PapaPetro

    I'm baffled by some of the players' comments lately, especially the viability and self-entitlement of farming tactics. It seems that there is a growing consensus that players who use cheap farming tactics are somehow persecuted/victimized by nerfs to splash and increase vulnerabilities to their vehicles. This is as it should be, since farming implies high-reward / low-risk behavior in a game that is supposed to be balanced and countable. In other words, if your getting easy kills with little fear of retaliation, then there is a clear indicator of imbalance. Farming implies a risk-free aberration in a PvP; the people that your farming aren't WoW trash mobs that respawn ad infinitum... they are fellow players that are looking to have a good time and equal opportunity to fight back.

    Since SOE's current cert mechanics support farming as a much faster alternative than traditional riskier approaches, by all means farm away. But please stop b****ing & moaning when changes to the game hinder your farming effectiveness...
    • Up x 23
  2. Robes

    Risk? When did dying in an fps mean **** all?
    • Up x 3
  3. TheAntiFish

    Having a whine at someone making a fairly valid point doesn't exactly cover you in glory either mate ;)
    • Up x 3
  4. Angry Scientist

    It's less about farming and more that you expect a certain level of return on investment in a vehicle, which gets expensive. Thousands of certs, tens of minutes of average resource intake, and it's barely better then infantry unless you cheese.
    • Up x 1
  5. PapaPetro

    Then why even have death in a FPS if it means nothing? Clearly it's a mechanic that is undesirable to most players as opposed to living, especially if you factor in resource costs and time to respawn/vehicles.
    • Up x 3
  6. Flashtirade

    Whoa.
    I think you might be onto something.
    • Up x 3
  7. PapaPetro

    Yes vehicles should have a better ROI since you are investing in them, but there is also a higher skill-cap required to be effective. If the skill-skill cap is easier than default infantry while including more firepower, splash damage, speed/maneuverability, high effective HP, etc. then everyone should just spam vehicles instead of running infantry. This does happen in regards to causal players vs. vets, lower level players will naturally shy away from vehicles at the start while vets fully realize the inherent potential of vehicles & maxes (over infantry) ASAP. So if you have a high skill-cap with a vehicle and can pull lots of kills, then all power to you. But if you're relying on an asymmetric and consistent number of kills with a low skill-cap, then the mechanics are imbalanced.
    • Up x 2
  8. FateJH

    To some extent the problem is farming. To another extent, however, the dissolution of weaponry designed to deal with large groups of troops also destroys the capability of small groups repelling large groups. After a certain point, it doesn't matter what tactics, weapons, or mindset you bring to a confrontation, sheer numbers will overpower all; but, up to that point, and until bases are sufficiently defensible for relatively smaller (but no less functional) group of defenders, a small force handling a large force should be entirely feasible in certain situations.

    I've always favored the possibility of specific auto-scaling weapons - quite powerful only when the population disparity ratio against the side that fields them is significant, and pushovers otherwise - but I can understand how that may seem very unappealling to others and could be complicated to balance. Heck, complicated to justify in lore.
  9. TheAntiFish


    There would be people out there finding ways to glitch their weapons into "Losing" mode, Nobody wants to give the bug abusers anything else to play with!
    Wouldn't be a bad idea, but you have too much faith in people.
  10. theholeyone

    Death means more fun to the guy doing the killing than it does un-fun (its a thing) to the guy dying for the most part.

    I sort of agree, in that nobody likes to be farmed, but also nobody is forcing you to spawn at that base. It actually seems quite balanced atm, AI splash main cannons leave the tank vulnerable to AP builds.

    Also, LA or Medic or Max farming in a biolab must be up there if not higher than AI vehicle farming in SPH, simply because it is not so obvious one side is getting farmed, in many cases its mutual farming anyway.
  11. LuNaTIcFrEAk

    When FPS game were good and you had to sit the rest of the round. ( Rouge Spear, original Ghost Recon, etc.)
    • Up x 4
  12. Blarg20011

    Well... uhhh... some times they kinda are.
  13. theholeyone

    The problem is people need to get a feel for the weapons, having a weapon change its stats according to factors not immediately apparent will lead to a lot of frustration. I think the resource update is designed to give/take force multipliers in such situations to help with local balance.
  14. PapaPetro


    Yes, players have a choice to not spawn at a particular base and I generally agree not to spawn there if it's been overwhelmingly camped (esp. with the current issue of splashing through the spawn shields and walls). However, my concern is with some player's reliance and outrage when changes to the game are made to alleviate habitual farming habits. In the long term, farming represents an asymmetric power balance that frustrates players who don't consistently farm, which leads to a decrease the global population of the game; farmed players leave the game out of fustraition and farmers will leave if there are no farms for easy kills (which they get reliant on). This holds true especially for newer players who may not have the tolerance to deal with being farmed.

    As for the Biolab farming, it's kind of a different beast of its own. In this case, the invaders are typically being camped while the defenders are containing them. Both sides are benefiting from farming each other: LAs are C4ing each other's camps, medics are reviving both sides dead, MAXes are in turret mode at each other. It's a stalemate until the invaders max crash their way through the line or the defenders cut off the teleporter's node (or sundy by the lift pads). I personally enjoy biolab battles the most, especially when they spill out and everyone is scattered in a massive rendition of cat & mouse.

    Edit:
    Just wanted to also add that once spawn shield/walls are effective at blocking splash fully, I believe this will help alleviate the farming angst toward spawn camping; allowing for defenders to have the option to mount a counteroffensive. Inversely, I'm sure it will irk many farmers who will be hindered by this change (seeing this as a direct nerf to their effectiveness).
  15. Sordid

    If it means nothing to you, I'm sure you'll be perfectly happy to meet me in some out of the way base and just stand there while I kill you repeatedly, right?

    ...yeah, didn't think so.
    • Up x 2
  16. TheAntiFish

    They could fix this by adding several exit points to already existing spawns. Just like the the tunnels in bases, but with more exit options. It would spread the camping out at least and make it a lot easier to get the numbers back into the fight!
    • Up x 1
  17. KenDelta

    You see , people can farm when other people are acting like farm animals/cattle.

    If I walk around with a tank and people start shooting me with their pistols , they deserve to be farmed.
    If I gun a harasser and people start shooting me with their guns , they deserve to be farmed.

    But "farming" isn't the issue , "farmers" don't whine about the inability to "farm" , they whine that SOE keeps listening to carebears like you that wants to get hit by 3 tank shells and just run to safety.
    • Up x 4
  18. KenDelta

    Since people don't wanna bother countering , they are WoW trash mobs , I've been incases of ESF lolpod rampaging for over 20mins in a 20v20 fight , no one from the enemy team bothered to even take his lock-on weapon out , tell me they don't deserve to be "farmed" with my "High risk-total bullsheit reward" rocketpods.
    • Up x 2
  19. DeadliestMoon

    Harassers are a touchy subject and the fact that you just said, if someone where to shoot at you, "they deserve to be farmed" doesn't grant you any merit at all. So my question to you is, what on Earth are they suppose to do, just stand there and let you kill them? Which therefore means letting themselves be farmed so......
    • Up x 3
  20. Earthman

    I actually agree with most of this, but please, bury deep under ground the memetic overuse and misuse of the word "entitlement". It's been overused to the point of meaninglessness and doesn't win you any internet tough guy self-made-e-warrior points.
    • Up x 1
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