So.... the Orion.

Nitpicky. Fine, continue talking about how the Orion is such a great weapon without having anything to back it up aside from your feelings when you die to it.

Kinda like HerpTheDerp claiming its impossible to hit anything even 10m away while moving with the SAW, completly unbiased opinions all around!

Here's an unbiased opinion. The Orion is awesome.

Well, I'm just as pissed about Vanu medics not having a mid-long range option as good as the SABR-13 for the TR. But maybe balance doesn't mean all classes have the same characteristics across all factions. Variety is good.

The Corvus is quite good.

No, it isn't. Not compared to the SABR. Even the NS-11a is better at mid to long range than the Corvus. The Equinox Burst is better at mid to long range than the Corvus. Believe me, I wanted to like and use that gun, but it isn't as good as the description sounds.

No, i think no LMGs should have it at all. No matter what faction. Its a trait that should not be attached to large capacity weapons (50+ rounds). I also followed it up by stating, in a later post, that carbines should have a .75 movement speed. All of them. They are smaller and more agile versions of ARs, so thus it makes sense to have that be and inherit trait of them.

I am in no way stating that one faction should have them over another, just simply large weapons should slow a player down as they would in real life. So please stop trying to make everything into a faction vs faction debate that gets no where.

The SAW has higher vertical recoil and lower horizontal recoil than the Orion.

This is not marginal

Also, yes, their hipfire is exactly the same, but thats the entire bloody point, the stock hipfire is awesome. To get the most out of the MSW-R you need the ADV laser sight, which ruins its barely there mid-range capability. To get the most out of the VS54 you just need the foregrip. BAM, easy to control weapon with awesome hipfire.

If the VS54 was a SC weapon, SOE would be making massive bank. Its combination of being free, and the total amount of certs needed to make it an utter killer totaling 130 certs makes it the best close/medium range LMG in the game.

I am not an expert at PS2, but in my experience, a weapon that pulls horizontally in one direction is a good thing in most situations. While I have not used the MSW-R, I do use the Serpent carbine which has more horizontal recoil than the MSW-R ( Serpent 0.25, MSW-R 0.225), is also usually used with an Adv Laser sight, and has a higher rate of fire (Serpent 845 RPM, MSW-R 750 RPM). The Serpents left pull horizontal recoil, once you can pull down and right at the correct speed, is highly controllable, because it only recoils in one direction, meaning you can keep it shooting on the same point. Two directional recoil manifests as a larger cone of fire. I may go VR when I'm home later and try seeing how precise I can be firing the MSW-R sustained with no forward grip.

No arguments from me. I think the Saw is a good LMG, and gets a fair number of headshots because of it's high vertical pull. The accuracy of the SAW in semi-auto is great at pinging heads too.
IMHO, the EM6 feels like it gets more headshots than the SAW though, especially at medium ranges.
For that range though, I think the TMG-50 is probably even better. It doesn't seem to bounce around as much.

I haven't used the Orion enough to know exactly how it feels from behind the trigger, but the recoil pattern fits. Honestly, it feels a lot like someone started with the CARV and tried to make it more like an AR. Good gun.

https://players.planetside2.com/#!/search/bigironranger this you? Where's your VS character with 400 orion kills and 13 kd?

Did you really make a post and then delete your VS character?

Your OP is such blatant bravo sierra.

Yeah those are my characters and no i haven't deleted my VS character its still up there just a completely and utterly different name than bigironranger.

I wouldn't say its BS im being quite frank and honest.

If you're being honest, post proof so we can verify your claims.

I think you're lying.

I find it is the TR who lack in the LMG department... until you remember the mcg

but still the VS have LMGs dominated with the SVA-88 and Orion

The NC have the EM6 and the SAW

the TR have the CARV and... well the... Rhino?

Edit:

You make up for it with your Carbines.

When I last checked HAs couldn't use carbines nor ARs. HAs are the Foundation of infantry combat. When there's practically no decent TR LMG, how is the TR supposed to fight Infantry Battles? (TMG 50 just sucks, CARV has too much horizontal+vertical recoil to be accurate, Rhino is not bad. But come on, how is the TR HA supposed to fight the EM6, SAW, Orion and SVA-88? Seriously, it's just not possible.)

There is a lot more to infantry combat than weapon stats. This isn't Eve Online.

I agree that the Orion/SVA-88 are better than anything the TR has, but you're acting like that means you have nothing worth using, and TR HAs just die horrible, gruesome deaths by the thousands to waves of cackling VS HAs spewing endless amounts of burning death with their vastly superior LMGs, and because of this, the TR just cannot compete in infantry combat, so they're doomed to warpgate purgatory where they ponder their meaningless existence until they wither away, and die.

No. TR wish they had VS LMGs, VS wish they had TR ARs/Carbines. TR wish they had ZOE, VS wish they had Fractures, etc etc. Life goes on.

So, the MSW-R is the superior CQC weapon, due to better hipfire and the Orion is the superior mid range weapon due to lower horizontal recoil (though the "hard up right" recoil is still easier to control). What was the problem again?

Everyone who plays on Briggs knows BIR, hes as good as he says.

The Orion has all the positives of the TR's best CQB weapon with the ability to reach out to ranged targets, unlike the MSW-R where its recoil pattern and attachments leave it stuck in one arena of play. This makes the Orion the best one-size-fits-all weapon which makes it a very good crutch for mediocre players to gain lots of kills (according to OP, and i agree having used both a significant amount).

The OP where this discussion originated from essentially stated that the MSW-R was the TR's equivalent Orion. And its free.