[Liberators] Balance is needed.

As the topic title says, Liberators really need addressing in Air to Air combat.
Currently air combat as it stands is hardly immersive due to the way Liberators currently handle and fight.

The only fix I could think of would be the implementation of aircraft stall mechanics.
This would be the best way to fix what is currently a joke of AA combat as it stands.

So you are saying that liberators need a good way to defend themself from air? Are you mad!? The liberator is meant to be a bomber, not a fighter. It should not be able to have any sort of good air superiority power unless the pilot and bomber are insanely good at what they do. Also, bombers usually, at least in real life, are not meant to be able to stand their ground effectively against air. Any fighters should be able to take them out without to much of a problem. Bombers are meant to destroy ground targets, which they are currently able to do fairly well in my honest opinion.

Guys I hovered below the belly of a liberator and expected it to let me empty 3 magazines of rotary into it and kill it!!! It didn't work and my ESF got put on cooldown and I lost resources but this should be changed because I did nothing wrong and liberators are overpowered! !!!!

But why dont Galls not perform the same crazy moves? I mean like Galls should atleast beable to travel at Warp speed's aswell as be armed with "Classy" Proton Torpedoes! Aswell as crazy school kids on the wings armed with AK's would be fine Too!


But on topic. did you know it takes 9 Tom cat missiles to take down a Lib?

Good thing I have that many... and I also fill them with lead between each shot so actually quite a few less.

Anyways, is your problem Libs using Daltons for A2A?


They really aren't that hard to fight, don't get so close... and don't be such an easy target. You can move around a lot while keeping rounds on target against a Lib.

The problem is a mix of a few things. One being the amount of AA missiles it takes to bring one down.
The 2nd being its general agility and its acceleration. Making it a "Heavy fighter" aswell as a bomber.

I'm a decent ESF pilot, and I have very hard time killing a good Liberator pilot + gunner. Getting near them is certain death. They don't fear ramming, so ESF has to make sure to avoid head on collisions. Any moment of hesitation or slow turn maneuver means getting 1-shot with a Dalton.

As it is now, Liberator can handle itself very well against air targets. However, Liberator is too easy to hit from the ground, with concentrated AA guns and multiple lock on missiles. Libs need more resistance to ground fire. Air to Air balance is pretty even

Please, sir, stop embarrassing Woodman with this silly request. We don't even have that many skilled Dalton teams on the server, best crews mostly use the Shredder.

Woodman is already as low as it can get. I dont see how a bit more flame could hinder any band-aid attempt.

I always thought they were suppose to be gunships, not bombers. What bombs are you refering to there?

Sadly, no you can't defend yourself from ESF's very effectively. Daltoning is insanely hard against all but the dumbest pilots (Isnt that suppose to be the main ground targetting weapon for God's sake?), shredder does ok. Walker is total garbage. Same ol' tired, used up song and dance.

And thats after after THOUSANDS of certs.

If you dont have a strict, dedicated ESF escort, you are dead plain and simple. Dont assume friendlies are going to help you

Mine is in the hanger indefinitely until/if they decide to give it some love. Just no fun, and frustrating pulling one, its like a broken record.

I see isn't hard to swarm a lib with 5 reavers already ?

I might have shot you down today when I got swarmed...hope you liked that dalton coming thru the cockpit

Anyway stay clear and if you see a MAP lib coming hide

That's strange, because on Matterson nights, the troll liberators come out to play. I know their libs by sight, now, running either their AA setup or their dalton spam setups.

The liberator's tank buster is one of the main culprits to this. It's able to take out any target in a single, upgraded clip. This includes lightnings shooting them with the skyguard, AA turrets shooting them full bore, or even an AP vanguard landing hits. The close in range of it is meaningless. With the HP it carries, even AV weapons struggle to sink enough damage in. That's...ridiculous. Being able to stomp any of your direct counters into the ground without a blink? How is that balance?

Ugh, notice when a lib come close to the ground, everything opens fire on it.

Stop thinking 1 vs 1

Look, you're talking about a 2 man crew...

come at them with 2 equally skilled ESF pilots and that lib should lose EVERY TIME

I still solo decent/good Lib crews... though the better ones usually recognize when I'm not going to give them a shot and just pull back to AA where I have no choice but to disengage, but I still deterred them as 1 vs 2.


Libs have little enough presence as it is in this game, and it takes a LOT of certs and practice to make them work anywhere close to effectively.

I don't see the problem honestly

The tankbuster really? Maybe its just me, but that thing's COF just sucks a**. I dont even equip it anymore, and use the default nose cannon only on ESF's bearing down on me directly from the front. Has a great range and mag size.

HP and survivability? You sure you arent talking about Gal in your post there? I get hit by tank rounds all the time. One hit, you better bug out.

I can count on one hand the amount of times I was able to "stomp" anything on the ground with impunity, let alone get to the target. Hover and go toe to toe with an AA turret? Hell no, thats asking for every Striker, burster, and AA to take you out.

Or maybe your server is different and I'm talking out of my a** here.

Might be the server. I'm not joking when the standard skilled liberator pilot's reaction on Matterson is to find the AA turret, and tank bust it. If that, somehow, didn't kill it, they lift the nose and the dalton obliterates what remains of the HP.

Earlier today, I was manning a skyguard as the VS were harassing the hell out of TI Alloys with air and I was to put a stop to it. I nabbed a couple ESFs that thought to engage me and pissed off one of the lib crews I see around. It swept away, fully repaired, and then fully bore down on me in a strafing run. I had the luck to see it coming and immediately directed full fire onto it andit still managed to get me into the kill zone with its tank buster, with a follow up shot instantly killing my lightning on its own nose. When I saw the death screen, the libby was still in the green and I didn't see the flash of fire suppression. It took on its direct counter in straight, no barred no tactics firepower, and it won. To me, that's wrong. Like a HE tank winning in straight one on one combat with an AP tank.

Wait, you stayed in one spot while getting tankbustered? Either hull down in some good cover so you don't get hit, or move diagonally towards and off side of the lib as it comes in. It is quite hard to aim the tankbuster at a target moving on both axes.
Shot for shot the skyguard cannot expect to go toe to toe with a tankbuster, the skyguard's advantage is its range and easy of use, you need to play to its strengths as the lib crew did to win.

Imo, the only balance needed to libs is increased flare duration, bigger and slower than ESFs makes them much more of a target for lock ons, and they are bigger so should be able to carry better flares anyway.

If a lib is tankbustering your AP vanguard, I assure you that you were doing it wrong.

Basically what I got from this is that Libs should not be able to fly upside down and shoot at ESFs with a Dalton.

With the change to most AA I feel that this would be a good change to the Lib, but also they should get a bit more flak protection so they can last a bit longer over mid-large battles, but they still be turned away by 2 Bursters or turrets. With the abundance of AA turrets at most bases, this would help liberators be a bit more viable than they currently are.

Honestly I fly a Lib at least once a play session and find that in the right circumstances they are amazing but fall flat in most engagements. They should feel like a flying MBT but really they only feel like a bad lightning only useful in certain situations unless you have some nice skills with the Dalton.

Edit: Also give better angles to the third gun.