How does the math on kinetic armor + ZOE work out?

Hey all,

I've been wondering for a while - how does ZOE work in combination with kinetic armor?

if ZOE affects resistance on a flat basis then the match works out very bad for ZOE and makes kinetic armor very insignificant, making other choices better. If on the other hand it just adds +30% damage to the finished result, then kinetic armor should be just as viable for ZOEs as it is for any other MAX. I suppose more succinctly the question posed is: Is ZOE a penalty to your resistance, or a multiplier to incoming damage?

If there is anyone out there who know how the match works (and perhaps could demonstrate a quick example or two) that would be great (or link me to a resource that has this information - that works too).

Just to clarify (and I know I might not have the correct math here, but you get my point) this is what I mean about it mattering how the numbers are used:

Let's say you take 1000 points of small arms fire. I can't remember exactly how much more armor kinetic gives you, but I think its 5%? I will use 5% here in the example anyway as for purposes of demonstration of the math involved it dosn't really matter exactly what the number is.

SCENARIO1 - ZOE penalizes resistance: 80% inherrent + 5% kinetic - 30% ZOE debuff = 55% total. 1000dmg * 0.45 = 450 damage taken in total.

SCENARIO2 - ZOE is a damage multiplier for incoming damage: 80% inherrent + 5% kinetic = 85% total resistance. 1000dmg* 0.15 = 150dmg. 150dmg * 1.3 (ZOE) = 195dmg taken in total.

As you can see the difference in practical application can theoretically be quite huge (more than twice as much) depending on how the numbers get used, even if they are all the same numbers. I hope someone can chip in and clarify the details for me

-Stigma

Too much effective HP.


Also, if you wear kinetic on a ZOE max prepare to be Decimator'd to the face for 95% of your hp.

Its not really relevant as youll fall over as soon as someone thinks about using thier C4.

ZOE's strength is movement, which translates into less hits, so I don't think Kinetic is the best armor choice there.

Yeah, but just like the Magrider ZOE isn't going to dodge any shots, you strafe at ~2.5m/s while a bullet goes ~500 m/s and most encounters will be in CQC, ZOE's great for going from cover to cover and dodging rockets at medium range, but you're going to want kinect. (or auto repair in smaller fights)

Flak is the worst option for ZOE since you'll be (most of the time) able to get out of range of deployed C4 before it explodes and Flak doesn't reduce the damage from direct RL hits.

It works out to be roughly OP.

Perhaps, but how often do you get killed by C4 you see deployed? The ZOE can kill most soldiers before they can gun him down, and can kill most LAs before they can detonate the C4 if you see them toss it.

3 m/s, and comparing magriders and ZOE is nonsensical. In magriders case it's about dodging "slow" projectiles at long ranges, in ZOE's case it's about throwing the aim off in CQC. Because the same motion is involved doesn't mean they affect the gameplay the same way.

Okay, 3m/s
Actually it's about the same thing, Magrider can't dodge tank shells up until 317.5m, seeing as most tank battles (just as infantry fights) don't happen at these extremely long ranges, it's about throwing your enemy's aim off.

Both magrider and ZOE aren't about dodging bullets (since they can't) it's about exploiting cover to cover situations and changing the direction you strafe in quickly so that the enemy needs to recalculate their gun movement and recoil as you said (or in the tank's case his bullet drop)

Had a minute, so I did some useless math for you. Take your own conclusions:

Edit: forgot to add: This is only valid for projectile dmg and has 0 influence on explosive dmg.

No ZOE:
80% resistance
Max Kinetic
87.5% resistance a net gain of 9.375% more resistance compared to the base of 80%
87.5/0.8 = 109.375% of 80%,

ZOE no Kinetic:
80*0.7 = 56% Resistance

If SOE deducts the 30% resistance straight from the base resistance including max Kinetic armor:
ZOE max Kinetic:
87.5*0.7 = 61.25% same as (80*0.7)+(7.5*0.7) 5.25% more effective armor
again the increase is 9.375% net.
61.25/0.56 = 109.375% of 56%.

If SOE deducts the 30% first and then adds the 7.5% flat from max Kinetic armor we got:
80*0.7+7.5 = 63.5% 7.5% more effective armor and a effective 13.3929% gain compared to our base of 56%
63.5/0.56 = 113.3929% of 56%.

Now we fire a bullet dealing 100dmg at our Max:
20dmg@80%, 12.5dmg@87.5%, 44dmg@56%, 38.75dmg@61.25% and 36.5dmg@63.5%

Adding flat +30% dmg on ZOE activation would be 20dmg*1.3 = 26dmg and at 12.5dmg*1.3 = 16.25 dmg.
So a zoe max with full kinetic would take 3.75dmg less than a normal Max w/o Kinetic armor in this example.

Wow, thats a lot of irrelevant math considering flak armor is the super-obvious choice anyways.

You could just turn it off before the rocket hits if its going to, but then hitting an active Zoe max with a deci is a feat of the gods.

And that's why my MAX eats all the TR MAXes for breakfast without even losing half of the total HP, keep using Flak

BS, it's easier than hitting infantry with it since the target is bigger

Math useless??? Never!

WRONG:
ZOE has a 30% incoming damage increase.
80 - 30 = 50
ZOE MAXs have 50% bullet resistance.
(Effective damage increase = 250%)


WRONG:
ZOE has a 30% incoming damage increase.
80 x 0.7 = 56
ZOE MAXs have 56% bullet resistance.
(Effective damage increase = 220%)


RIGHT:
ZOE has a 30% incoming damage increase.
100 - 80 = 20
20 x 1.3 = 26
100 - 26 = 74
ZOE MAXs have 74% bullet resistance.
(Effective damage increase = 30%)


If it worked the the first or second way, a ZOE MAX would die to one low damage medium-sized carbine mag to the chest. That's very clearly not the true.

If the damage multiplier is applied before KA, ZOE MAXs take 18.5% bullet damage. If it applies after, they take 16.25% bullet damage. I assume the latter is the case, but I have no conclusive proof of this.

Math is never useless
I said it's useless because it's a quick approximation how it should work according to numbers in a very controlled environment.

no one using self repair armor ? I <3 it

Thanks for the input always welcome.

So for a max Kinetic Armor ZOE Max it's
12.5*1.3 = 16.25
100-16.25 = 83.75 bullet resistance.
That's more than a normal max without KA.

I guess we have to go back to the drawing boards

Which is true for all MAX. Come to think of it, it's just as true for all infantry. The difference is that the ZOE is more likely to avoid the blast when he sees the LA come flying since he can actually most faster than the LA.

Agreed.