So.... the Orion.

No, you can't, because you suck. Let's do a little math: the SAW has a moving ADS CoF of 0.5. The CARV and most other LMGs have 0.4. This means that at ten meters, you are putting bullets into an area equal in size to what a CARV does at 12.5 meters. To calculate this another way to factor out your hilarious NC crybaby bias, take the range at which the CARV can hit people while moving and ADS and subtract 20% from that. The area covered by the cone of fire for each weapon is exactly the same at those relative distances.

You were saying that every time you stop moving you die instantly to headshots. I was demonstrating that your claim is stupid; having the shield on makes you just as easy to shoot. You don't die instantly either way, any more than snipers die instantly when they stop to take a shot.

Ok, let's compare the SAW to the Spectre, the default semi-auto sniper rifle for the VS, since you're whining about the VS. SAW numbers on the left, Spectre numbers on the right.

ADS CoF while moving: 0.5 vs 0.55
Bloom per shot: 0.07 vs 1 (this isn't a typo, there really is 14 times more CoF bloom)
Recoil: 0.9075 vs 1.3
Recoil decrease: 12 vs 5
Bullet speed: 600 vs 570
Shots to kill: 6 vs 5 (unless you turn your shield on, then it takes 10)

And you give that fight to the Infiltrator? The SAW is just better in every way, except that the Spectre does 55% more damage per shot. If only it didn't have to chew through a hit point total that's 277% the size of the Infiltrator's, that might be enough to turn things in his favor. He can equip NW5 too, in which case you only have 217% as many effective hit points as he does. You should be able to maintain an accurate rate of fire that's at least half again as fast as the Infiltrator, probably closer to twice as fast, but even if you could only shoot the same speed (despite being miles ahead of the sniper rifle in every category that affects this) you would still win that fight.

So yes, you can countersnipe with it. Well, other people can. You can't, because you're apparently so bad that you can't hit a man sized target ten meters away. Way to blame the gun for you being an incompetent turd.

Most of the snipers are using BA Sniper Rifles. Even the 100 Cert BA or the Bolt Driver of the NC will OHK on headshot unless you have NW5. Your argument is invalid.

If someone moves even the slightest bit while trying to headshot them with a Bolt Action, you will likely miss. Or you could just spend 11 certs on Nanoweave.

Haha, nope, because CoF is a disk, and the CoF value specifies the radius of said disk. And if you might remember from school, to calculate the area of a disk, you square the radius. And squaring is a funny thing.

If you just compare 0.5 to 0.4, SAW is 25% less accurate than CARV(which in itself is a huge difference, and of course Orion has ADSm CoF of 0.35)

If you get the actual CoF disk hovewer:
3.14*0.4*0.4 = 0.5024
3.14*0.5*0.5 = 0.785

Then surprise surprise, SAW is 56.25% less accurate than CARV(or any other gun with 0.4 ADSmCoF, i.e. EM6)

Besides, who cares? It's easy to just see for yourself, go to the VR, get CARV or SAW, turn on the shield to reduce strafe speed, and unload into the second line. That's 10m. You don't even need to stopwatch it or count frames in a recording, you can clearly feel the difference in TTK and see the SAW spraying bullets all over the place because of the tracers.

Which makes no sense because shield does not make you immobile. But thanks for trying, I guess?

And how many infiltrators run with the default sniper rifle? Infiltrator without a bolt action is a goddamn joke. Please stop with these desperate attempts, it's just sad at this point.

Get math'd Pax.

Oh look, time for me to give a worthless turd a remedial math class.

Cone of Fire is not a disk, it is a cone. Specifically, it refers to the apex angle of the cone, not the radius of the cone's base. You're getting all kinds of stupid results by assuming that "Cone" means "Radius." Run a Google image search for "90 degree cone" and take a guess what this refers to.

How much would you like to bet that 0.4 is not 25% less than 0.5?

Aside from those measures being total nonsense since Cone of Fire refers to a cone rather than the radius of a cone's base, 0.5024 is not 56.25% less than 0.785. It is 36% less.

The only thing you got right was that the practical thing we want to be looking at is the area of the base of the cone of fire. Fortunately for your badly atrophied math skills, the range at which a weapon puts its shots into a circle of a particular size is inversely proportionate to the apex angle of its cone of fire. To dumb it down for you, a weapon that has twice the cone of fire needs to be half as far away to put bullets in the same size circle on the wall.

Earlier you said that SAW can't hit a man sized target beyond ten meters. Using some simple math that is evidently beyond your grasp, we can determine that the CARV would be putting bullets into an equally sized circle from 12.5 meters. The Orion would put shots into the same circle at just over 14 meters.

Instead of using your awful math and hyperbolic claims regarding the ineffectiveness of the SAW, I have a simpler theory: you suck at math and you're a terrible shot, so you blame a gun that is literally more accurate than a sniper rifle when you can't hit a man sized target ten meters away from you.

MSW-R is good, but it doesn't have the same reach as the Orion has at medium range. The Orion also has awesome hipfire without the need to dump 200 certs on laser sights. And the CARV...well i guess its alright if you're within 10 feet of the enemy...

Working on the Auraxium for the LSW now, after medaling with Flare, Orion and SV-88. I am finding that I miss the SV-88, the LSW is not bad, but I do miss the .75 ADS movement speed of the Orion and SV-88.

We've been assuming NW5 for quite some time. Also, you have a resist shield unless you're stupid, which means that even if they're plugging you in the head with every shot, it'll take three bullets for you to go down. The semi-auto sniper rifles can kill a heavy with a resist shield faster than the bolt actions will, simply because they can get the required number of shots off a lot faster than the bolt actions can. The bolt action is good for dropping people who don't have resist shields and don't have NW5.

I thought it was NW3 past 50m to negate which is all of like, 41 certs

Yeah, I just won the math fight. Get stuffed.

I call VS the head shot faction for a reason. Easy mode for sure!!!

So the VS should have no weapons with 0.75 movement multiplier (unless we use the NS weapons)? None of our carbines or AR's have it. The Orion and SV-88 are the only VS weapons that have it. The NC get's it on it's AR's, and the TR get it on their Carbines and AR's. Just because things aren't identically balanced for one group of weapons (in this case LMG's) doesn't mean balance isn't made up somewhere else. Bias much.

Quick correction: the H-V45 has it. None of the VS carbines do.

For the second gen BA's you need NW5, first gen NW3.

Thanks for the correction it does indeed. I miss read the line on the spreadsheet when I looked at the AR's.

Eh? AFAIK the weapon stat spreadsheet is more or less up to date.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...750&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

From here it seems that the Orion has more vertical recoil, and although it has marginally less horizontal recoil, the MSW-R has single direction recoil, which I find makes it easier to compensate for at medium ranges (pull down and left with your mouse = laser). Oh, and although the Orion has a lower first shot recoil modifier, because the vertical recoil is higher, all that means is that the first shot has the same vertical recoil for both guns.

Also, you can see that their hip-fire without attachments is exactly the same, both standing and moving. So that second part is bollocks. With a forward grip, they have the same hip-fire accuracy, with laser sights, (because you can get an Adv laser on it) the MSW-R has better hip-fire.

Orion is a very good gun, but I don't want to take it away from the VS. It's theirs, let them have it. Just give us some love on the MCG please...

Although I haven't read this thread I believe the Orion has a head shot bonus. I have roughly 20% headshots with it, twice that of any other weapon except sniper rifles. Or perhaps the recoil is leading to more headshots?

A lot of people feel the same way. Fighting TR or NC doesn't result in anywhere near the number of headshot "PING" sounds as fighting the VS.
It does come down to recoil, but it's also about ROF. But let's not forget that the VS also benefit from lack of bullet drop. A weapon that has high vertical recoil but low horizontal recoil is very easy to "walk" up from the chest to headshots, with little loss of DPS due to missed shots horizontally. The Orion is a beast at this. So is the SVA-88, which is another top-tier LMG. (Also Pulsar C, Flare, Ursa, Corvus, etc.)