So.... the Orion.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by BigIronRanger, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. Botji


    Yes, interesting how TR should have the highest ROF and NC should have the highest damage but VS shouldnt have any faction trait at all.

    I guess you have some other usefull trait that VS can get so when we have low damage per shot and low ROF we can at least reload fast. Yeah that sounds like a great trait to have, just like having no bullet drop in a game where weapons with bullet drop hardly has any at all and the ranges where it actually matters it takes ~2 seconds for the bullets to get there.
  2. Aegie

    idk, there are a lot of times where I play VS and get headshot like crazy from long distances and when I play VS I have a much easier time getting lots of long distance headshots.

    This and the other day there were 2 good Magriders drivers who were all but invincible- granted they were skilled but to watch them work was just like wow.

    To be fair, TR tends to have highest ROF, greatest DPS, and largest mag ammo capacity.

    NC, tends to have lowest ROF, least DPS, and smallest mag ammo capacity.

    VS tends to be in the middle on these and tends to perform about in the middle (with TR>VS>NC) on a lot of metrics.

    Oh, and ZOE is hands down the best MAX ability- nothing else comes close.
    • Up x 1
  3. SpcFarlen

    The only problem i have with it, or any LMG at that matter, is having a 0.75 ADS movement speed. I dont think any LMG should have it. It should be a stat restricted to carbines and maybe a hand full of ARs. Heavies are meant to be big bruisers, allowing them to move just a tad bit faster, which doesnt effect the COF compared to a 0.5 movement speed, just seems a bit off. Heavies should be slower because they carry larger weapons, so just remove the 0.75 movement speed modifier and put in the regular 0.5. Other people have added thoughts similar to this that HAs should be slower in movement speed than any other class and i agree on that topic. Its a price you pay for having almost 1.5x or more total health pool over the other classes.

    As for the other stats on the weapon, eh its a Carv clone with faction flavor. DPS is the same, handeling is around the same (again faction flavor) so theres nothing really ground breaking there. Not to mention it is a starter weapon, so you will get killed by it a lot. Not because its GOD LIKE but simply because everyone gets it, it doesnt have large downsides, so why purchase something else? Its simply just widely used like the T9 Carv and NC6 Gauss SAW for HAs.
  4. Botji

    Thing is, we werent talking about the current game balance but what it would be like if the factions actually held true on their "traits" but its derailing the thread so im not going to respond anymore about it.

    As it is I have no problem picking up any of the faction weapons, they are so alike that its hardly a difference. Pretty much only the SAW requires you to play with it in mind, Orion to a lesser degree but you always want cover to reload.
  5. Isokon

    To aim at the head of your opponent and not get a headshot due to bullet drop, the distance to your target has to be somewhere around 145 metres and beyond. Unless you are using sniper rifles, that is not a common engagement range in the game and certainly not one where you go for headshots.
  6. Aegie

    Fair enough, personally I think the faction trait of "hardest hitting" is really misleading when the "hardest hitting" weapons also tend to have the lowest DPS in those categories.

    Also, if you think the SAW takes some working getting the hang of then let me introduce you to the ACX-11.

    I think the issue as it stands now is that there is really only one faction where the faction traits are direct strengths useful in just about every scenario regardless- higher ROF coupled with greatest DPS and the most ammo in a magazine will always work to your advantage pretty much absent of how you use the weapons. NC weapons and to a certain extent VS weapons both, IMO, require the player to play to the strengths of the weapon in order to be on a level playing field with TR- hence why TR has been generally outperforming the other factions and probably will continue to do so unless some changes are made.
    • Up x 1
  7. llPendragon

    I agree.

    My current LMG game balance issues:
    - Orion and SVA-88 are too close to being a straight upgrade to an AR. Either they need the 0.5 ADS movement of a LMG or they need the higher first shot recoil and recoil decrease of ARs. (Which SOE knows, because they made sure the NS-15M had it.)

    - Gauss SAW should have a smaller clip. 50 at the most. SOE knows this, because they had to build the Reaper and AC-X11 that way. Then the reload time can be increased to mimic the Reaper and AC-X11 as well.

    - EM1 needs a better hip fire COF or a faster ROF. Probably both.

    - Carv - S needs a faster reload time or less horizontal recoil. Either would allow it to actually compete as an option.
  8. Aegie

    Bottom line is that all TR and NC weapons require you to consider three vectors, the horizontal and the vertical and these are related to the z vector (how far away the target is from you). VS does not have to consider the vertical vector on weapons with no bullet drop because there is no variance in the vertical- you still have to consider how far the target is from you but only because of travel time (something the TR and NC also have to consider).

    It is just a fact that having to calculate less information makes the shot easier to place, especially for stationary targets or those with little relative horizontal motion. This idea that it only affect long distance is untrue since with other factions the drop is not a constant but rather a variable dependent upon the speed of the projectile- therefore, whenever you switch weapons you have to adjust to the greater/lesser velocity and therefore greater/lesser drop in the vertical vector. True, VS also has variation in projectile speed but this variation does not affect the vertical vector and therefore a portion of the variation that exists for TR/NC among weapons does not exist for VS. Also true that no bullet drop is pretty irrelevant is CQC and many midrange engagements but you should be thankful that you have other values like COF, recoil, DPS and movement multipliers that are competitive precisely because no bullet drop is not very beneficial in these situations. Of course, huge damage per shot is also not very useful in CQC once you add all the drawbacks like low ROF, low DPS, big recoil, large COF multipliers and no movement bonus.

    How useful is no bullet drop? Hard to say, but on central stats- like ROF, damage per shot, DPS, recoil- VS tends to be solidly in the middle and therefore it is not surprising to me when we find they perform about in the middle of TR and NC.
  9. Aegie

    Careful now, the ACX-11 underperforms and a lot of people think this is so because of the small mag capacity. Seriously, I do better with just about any weapon unless I am going for assists instead of kills. Started using the Razer lately- OMG, it is way beyond what the ACX-11 can do. Why? 30 rounds, thats why. ACX-11 needs at least another 5 rounds and should have better projectile velocity given that it is really meant for longer range combat.
  10. Botji

    If you ever find yourself having trouble with bullet drop you are either useing a silencer wich is stupid at long range or the target is so far away that its stupid of you to even attemt to fire at it because the travel time to the target is so long that getting a kill is extremly unlikely unless you have a bolt sniper.

    I have some cool stats that doesnt really support your theory about the bullet drop.

    My VS char with Orion:
    859 kills
    27% accuracy
    208 headshots

    My NC char with SAW:
    859 kills(yes, its exactly the same)
    31% accuracy
    250 headshots

    Why is the weapon with more complicated things to think about more accurate than my no brainer no bullet drop weapon? :(
    It was only 2 days ago that I certed the 1x reflex on the SAW, otherwise I mainly used the 3.4x I think so its not like I havent used it for long range a lot.

    But yeah, I guess the bullet drop is just so complicated that even though I main VS with no bullet drop, switching to NC is such a big change I somehow overperform with it for some reason. <- SARCASM SIGN, because people dont understand it otherwise.
  11. Vastly

    Except when they don't, which is far more frequent than when they do.
  12. Aegie

    Never said that no bullet drop meant no brainer and you are right that there are other factors that go into accuracy than these alone (like COF).
  13. Aegie

    ?
  14. Isokon


    For starters, I was merely answering to your statement that you "get headshots like crazy from long distances" on your VS, which is not a valid argument if you can't back it up with some kind of proof.

    But my point still stands. While there may be a mathematical difference in where the bullet lands relative to where you aim, it is not large enough given the impact of other factors ingame.
    At ranges were bullet drop becomes a noticable factor (even for low bullet velocity guns), stats like damage per bullet, first shot recoil multiplicator and low stationary ads COF become more important while ROF and DPS become less important.
    This fits the NC quite well and the VS have their no-drop perk.
    The TR get the short end of the stick here, but screw those guys anyway. ;)
  15. SikVvVidiT

    Yup and they have two of those weapons, SVA-88 is pretty much a upgrade over the Orion

    This is why I laugh when I hear VS talk about they are just more skilled and when others say this game is balanced...Add the fact that these easy mode guys have the ZOE and GG.

    BTW My main was VS untill the ZOE came out. I always gotta fight with the underdogs and VS is nowhere near being a underdog now.

    Sometimes I just don't know what these Developers are doing. Its obvious they don't play their own game.. They already admitted as much.
  16. Pax Empyrean

    And yet nobody is complaining about how inaccurate the SMG is when fired from the hip. For the SAW to miss due to ADS inaccuracy requires long engagement range, where the SAW performs better than the Orion anyway.

    ALL ABOARD THE STUPID TRAIN! CHOO CHOO! NON-STOP EXPRESS TO THE PITY PARTY! ERR'YBODY'S INVITED!

    A Heavy Assault is so slow with the shield up that you don't have to lead him to shoot him in the head. Oh, and the SAW is a great gun for counter-sniping, which the Orion sucks at.

    Another problem with you crybabies is that you're willing to assume teamwork on the other side but ignore it for your own. The SAW and the Orion hit the 1000 health breakpoint at the same time, and while the SAW does less DPS, the damage is front loaded so that it generally kills wounded targets (or targets who are getting shot at by more than one person) more quickly than the Orion does.
  17. Nakar

    And I think NC and VS should get 0.75 ADS carbines, but they don't. This would be a straight factional nerf akin to that time they gave TR and VS a 0.75 ADS AR and NC lost that uniqueness.

    I'm sure when SOE needs more money we'll see 0.75 ADS TR/NC LMGs and NC/VS Carbines. Just gotta give it time.
    • Up x 1
  18. SpcFarlen


    They sure will run out if ideas for new weapons. But just on that... why dont all carbines have a 0.75 movement speed? They are light weight and more compact variants of ARs so they should have the added mobility in them but of course maybe lack the accuracy over range like ARs have, a trade off. This would give picking a class to play a lot more depth since their weaponry would be very distinct.
  19. llPendragon



    I can't help but agree with you. The Razor has about the same reload time, but those 10 extra bullets make it a much better gun than the 200 damage makes the AC-X11. Even just 5-8 more rounds may actually make a huge improvement in the AC-X11. As it is, I suck at using the AC-X11, but use the Razor daily.;)
    But back to the LMG issue, I think the 50 rounds should be okay for the SAW. The AC-X11 has 1/3 fewer bullets than any other Carbine, so having the SAW match the minimum of other LMGs seems like it would be okay. I guess 50-75 is a better estimate.
    • Up x 1
  20. HerpTheDerp

    Haha. If you're ADS-moving, SAW can't reliably hit a human-sized target past TEN METERS.

    So you're saying every time you turn on the shield you die instantly to headshots? Because we all know that's complete ********.

    Hahaha, oh my god, you're just pathetic at this point. To "counter-snipe" with SAW you need to stand still(to get the 0 CoF) and use single shots(because at sniping distance, anything but 0 CoF = miss) At sniping distance, SAW does 167 damage per shot. You need six shot to kill a non-NW Infiltrator this way. Between recoil and CoF cooldown, that's about six seconds. You will die three times to even an average sniper in that amount of time.

    Please, "sniping SAW" is a complete and utter nonsense.

    And yeah, Orion can't "countersnipe". Because it's a short range LMG. In a game where 90% of engagements happen at short range.
    • Up x 1