Current state of the NC MAX vs. TR/VS MAX

Raven is not great against infantry, come on. The speed is so slow they have to stand still for seconds and you have to keep your aim at them. You can use them for guilty pleasure not as alternative to say slugs. Against vehicles they do good but fracture does better.

When you pick your VS or TR AI weapons - do you worry about whether to pick them for Anti-Infantry or Anti-Max?

No?
Why?

Because you get no choice and they're great for both. No sacrifice. Spend your 350 resources and go.

When you play NC, do you pick your max for AI or Anti-Max?

Yes.
Why?

Because you have to either choose to be able to sometimes hit things over 20m (i.e. slug), or inexplicably sacrifice close range damage by putting slugs in.

Why should slugs do less damage? If you have slugs equipped, you will lose any max vs. max fight where you have the same armour levels. Even with the shield to allow you to reload. That makes no sense. Slugs should provide the same total damage pellets do, just rely on you being more accurate.

Now: whether this is by design or by dead zone bug is irrelevant really; fact is this - if you have slugs even if you play the perfect round up close and with a shield, the other two maxes can outdamage you. I think I also saw a stat recently from Higby that said only about a 3rd of NC players have the shield; so those that don't are on to a loser from the off.


I don't expect to win all max vs max fights as we did pre-nerf, I can see that is unreasonable. But if I can aim and have slugs slotted, I should expect to win as many as I lose against equal opponents.

I'm pretty sure I've never been killed by Ravens as infantry xD
Although, there was a time right after there release where I'd be in my Lib and hear the whine of multiple "Pheonixs" and have a heart before I realized it was just Ravens. So... that was fun.

The reason to run ZOE is and always will be the movement speed boost that can be turned on or off in an instant. My VS only has one rank in it because that gets him the max movespeed. Zoom around, turn it off and murder with endless Cosmos spam.

Comets are ludicrously good against NC MAXes because they seem to almost totally ignore the shield. I'll win against a Cosmos/Blueshift every time (unless it's a ZOE Cosmos Kramering into a room when I'm getting repped and murdering everybody) but Comet MAXes I'll just straight up die to because I can't run from them

This is incredibly wrong. Slugs are deadly as **** at all ranges, though they should probably have their damage upped. It wont reduce the shots to kill but it will make them more viable at range, which I think is a fair balance move. That or make them a free alt fire option.

At long range, the Ravens are easily the best weapon available for the NC MAX. For anything in close or midrange, there are always better options, such as the Falcon.

I really don't like it when people pretend like the Raven is the NC MAX's "omni"weapon, capable of doing everything all of our other weapons can do, except better.

I dislike using NC maxes, because they require that you fight pretty much at a range that could be served by just giving the NC max a sword to go along with it's shield. Because the max Requires this very close range combat in order to work, you are required to Kite an NC Max, or pick at it from range... preferably with fractures, in order to kill one. That said, honestly I agree with people here OP, that the NC Max has the advantage at that close range... And tbh, a while back people seemed to understand that. I don't see NC using this ability with maxes that much anymore for some nebulous reason. You pretty much have to use the NC max like a freaking berserker, charging towards the enemy and getting between them, so that you can just lay down fire and crush them, tanking up damage like a champ.

As to your idea about hunting maxes with Falcons, you are Absolutely right. I have seen people using dual falcons recently as their anti-max load, and it seems to work wonders, I've died to it myself a time or two now. I imagine sparrows would be just as effective.

As NC maxes are set up around close quarters, you would be wise to do what I do with a lockdown TR max using AI loadout: Find yourself a doorway and sit at an off angle. Infantry pile in, wipe out a squad of people, rinse and repeat. I mean despite TR having mercies, you can still use a close range loadout with Mutilators and/or heavy cyclers. Doing this means that your max range is short, but if you lock down you can eat someone's health before they have time to react. lvl 2 Lockdown 1v1 a ZOE with AI loads on both of you... it's dead even, even with substained fire from 2 other infantry units hitting you with LMGs.

The damage boost also couple quite well with comets.

I've actually run dual comets in CQC biolab fights and just torn **** up. With decent accuracy it tears through people and I out DPS'd two engie's trying to heal a mercy MAX one time and then waded in and slaughtered the engies with my MAX punch of justice. It was a glorious moment.

Don't know about them ignoring the shield though? That seems buggy?

Aegis.txt

The most infuriating thing about Comets is that they're supposed to be slower than the Falcons, but Falcons are bugged and only move at a glacial 40m/s or so, meaning that our chief fire-and-forget rocket option can be sidestrafed by even a non-ZOE MAX at >20m. They're worthless in their intended role, which is annoying because I tend to prefer guerrilla strikes instead of standing there exposed while guiding Ravens to their target, getting hit by AP shells and Sarons the entire time.

If they actually moved at 100m/s like they're supposed to then Falcons would be pretty good despite their convergence weirdness and deadzone, but they're slower than a tossed grenade

The NC MAX doesn't have much of an advantage at all if the enemy also has MAXes. I'm not sure why nobody seems to understand this yet, but the NC MAX simply doesn't do enough damage in CQC to win against an enemy MAX. There just isn't enough shells in our magazines to do it. The NC MAX is slightly more effective than the TR and VS MAX when it comes to killing normal infantry in CQC situations, but that's all. The TR and VS MAX are also very capable of tearing through infantry in CQC, and you're lying to yourself if you say they aren't.

And when I was talking about Falcons, I wasn't talking about MAX hunting with them. I'm saying that when the enemy has MAXes present in the battle, our scattercannons begin to feel almost unusable. Swapping out scatters for falcons makes killing infantry harder, but the good thing is that you aren't useless if there is an enemy MAX supporting the infantry.

A special advantage that comets have is the the short range of the close convergence point, it's like 10m, while falcon and pounder struggle with 30m.

Deadly as hell nah. But better than other options. I think they should have damage reduced to 490 just so they can't kill with 2 shots at close range. I think that should be the advantage of pellets. Maybe reduce damage falloff instead.

You got to be quite good if you think falcons are good at hunting MAXes with their slow speed, glow and minimum range. Back in old times when they killed MAXes with 3 shots (instead of 5) had a constant speed of 90 and "invisible" projectiles it might have been a thing.

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Comets are silly good against Harrassers. Two full clips and they be dead . It's funny when they're running at you to run you over and you just gun them down haha.

It'd actually be kinda neat if they had an NS MAX AV option... I'm sure they will have some NS MAX options in the future? Maybe some competent midrange AI options?

They kill infantry with 4 shots unless they're headshots don't they, I thought that was my experience. But, if you're firing both at once odds are you'll hit with both or neither.

Falcon velocity is not bugged, it's just the tooltip that is misleading just like the damage of phoenix. At GU07 they changed falcons from having a constant velocity of 90 to an initial velocity of 50 which then accelerates to 100 at a rate that is not noticeable at 50m.

On the test server they changed the max velocity to 110 or maybe 120, even though that doesn't make jack sh*t of a practical difference. Falcon velocity is working as SOE wants it to be, even though it was one of the most idiotic changes they have done in the game.

I've seen it done recently, all I said. Worked pretty well for the TIW guy who killed me.

And then you asked: How to kill maxes with NC max weapons, and I said: Falcons or sparrows. Also, I don't think I said that the TR and VS max are Bad at killing infantry... Considering I then went on to say that TR maxes have extraordinarily good CQC when locked down. Likewise, I didn't see a need to say that ZOEs are good at killing infantry, like I don't see the need to explain to you what color the sky is, or what day of the week it is.

Now the last time I checked, which was a while back, post shotgun nerf, the NC max still had equal TTK to a locked down TR max when it came to killing a max unit, using Scats or Haxs. I will check again when I get home to see if this is untrue (That will be 6 hours from now). I'll post after that my results

I remember they did this with the Enforcer secondary and then immediately reversed it as it made the weapon impossible to aim with.

It's baffling that they brought it back. I miss the old invisible and hard to work with Falcons

Slugs are our best anti-MAX tool

You don't see many NC max as 350 resources can be used elsewhere and NC max die fast so you have to wait for those resources to come back. You can't use it everywhere so every time your squad moves you lose your resources.

I personally find i get far better kill streaks and survivability these days from NC heavy. More medics than engineers (engi all in vehicles) around if squadmate dies. And can use personal medkits/restokits as HA. If HA die, you get revived to full or respawn with more rockets/grenades. You can squad deploy and spawn beacon drop as HA.

Not every single enemy is shooting at me as heavy, they do when in a max suit. Hunt the MAX seems to be a minigame everyone wants to play.

Infantry no longer run from NC max 2-3 of them will stay fight and win. TR/VS max would eat up those 2-3 infantry at 10-20m while the NC max will cower. Shield isn't much help, seem to take a ******** of damage through it.

All in all the NC max is no fun, pull it to fight tanks and aircraft (and lately rarely vs aircraft - HA using hawk is better).

If TR/VS max just gets 10m away you can't win without reload, or a single heal from engi and you have to reload. If shield didn't block vision and make move slow it wouldn't be so bad, as is you are a sitting duck for rockets/c4/grenades and even gunfire at most angles.

*Give us 3 bullet types as i stated many other posts. pellets/buckshot(3 heavy pellets)/Slugs and slugs should be slightly more accurate on first shot. pellets do most damage, then the 3 buckshot, and least slugs. Then you pick your fight distance which would still not be that far out and **** yourself in the other 2.

Interesting. When I run into a NC MAX with my Dual Mercy MAX it tends to end up like this. I start shooting at the NC MAX who either pops his shield and just walks up to me and shoot me to bits or uses his sprint to run up to me and then shoot me to bits. When I encounter a NC MAX, I hold the A key and left mouse button and hope that he doesn't engage. If the MAX chose to engage, then I am dead. The only time I have a chance is if the NC hesitates or if he cannot close the gap between us.

ZOE MAX is similar but they either snipe from long range with Blue Shift or run circles around me using their superior speed to keep away from my bullets. I've also had them run straight through me and punch me to death by standing inside me. Since they are faster, it's pretty darn hard to step away and get them into range of anything.

Yeah lockdown is a crock of ****. I give u that.

As for cyclers. Yeah they take a tiny bit to kill but they sure do work well enough. Fun as hell to.

I have been c4d and rocketed plenty as my tr max. I dont even roll nc max as its area of expertise is far to limited. Ravens for ai? No thx. Ill get my nc6 out for that. It works better.

Last I saw, the NC and VS maxes had a 1.05 KD/R vs other maxes. TR have a 0.9. ZOE is the most used faction-specific (likely since it pretty well replaces Charge) and NC's is used least (because they don't like nice things?). I was surprised that TR wasn't least used, as I rarely see a TR MAX locked down (maybe that's because they die 5s after). TR max is pulled most often, meaning that despite the possibility of TR MAXes out-numbering enemy MAXES being higher, they still still have a lower MAX vs MAX KDR.

If you're trying to say MAX vs MAX that NC is UP, data doesn't seem to support it. If you want to say that NC MAX is very inflexible...agreed. TR is likely pulled most often since we're a good all-rounder, able to to take down infantry well and not be terrible in MAX fights (0.9 KDR isn't totally bad). NC MAX is more difficult to use but crazy-effective when pulled at the right time and used properly.

Sorry to take away from the conversation but what does CQC stand for exactly?