[Suggestion] Make Engineers Relevant

Discussion in 'Engineer' started by somefriggnidiot, Sep 7, 2013.

  1. somefriggnidiot

    Having played as mostly Engineer levels 1-30 and switching over to Medic for levels 30-50+, I've noticed quite a few things that seem to create a gap between the support roles (namely XP rates.)

    As a medic, I can find myself playing various roles on top of my support position. Having the assault rifle, I can pop smoke and use my NV scope to punch a hole for the offense to go through. With my medic tool, I can revive any fallen friendlies and use it (as well as my ability) to polish them up to pristine condition. I'm capable of both being able to take out a large group of enemies with a C4 while using a Revive Grenade to bring back the friendlies that fell victim to an enemy's similar action. It's as much a combat role as it is a support role, which makes it an excelent, versatile class.
    On top of that, the XP's great. I can grab around 100xp per revive (taking little over a second for each.) I can heal friendlies around me absorbing masses of XP at once for each tick of health. Heck, tossing a Res Nade into a recently-crashed biolab room can easily land a medic a couple certs in only seconds.

    And what can the Engie do?

    As an Engineer, I more often found myself piloting my own tank, taking out enemies and keeping it up on my own. Attempts to repair another's is often met with an unintentional set of broken legs (and arms... and neck...) Yeah, I can rush into combat and take out a few guys. I can set up a turret (assuming I get there before another prospective Engie) and mow down any target that pops its head into the hallway. I could follow around a friendly max, grabbing 10xp per repair tick, but for supposedly being just as important a support role as Medic, where does the reward come in? (After all, all roles are equally important... aren't they?)

    The idea is simple: give Engie's something that makes them relevant. Make it a class people will want to play, rather than a job that people only take up after all the MAXes whine about needing more repairs.


    Proposition 1: Increase the XP rate.
    Having played both fairly regularly, there's no doubt in my mind that Medics get far more XP than Engineers. While it seems fair to allow medics approximately the same XP a kill would yield for a full Revive, Engineers are left with little reward in comparison for the work they do.
    Simply doubling the XP yield for repairs and resupplies would be a great way to make playing Engineer viable once again.

    Proposition 2: Increase the ways in which Engineers may gain XP.
    The Engineer, as it stands, can only repair. Granted, it can destroy an enemy turret or tank just as well as the rest of them, but why not let it do more?

    Temporary Shields: Taking up the spot of the turrets, Engineers could deploy a shield that would absorb all damage passing through both sides.

    Deployable Repair Nodes: An additional deployable option, an Engineer could place a Repair Node. The Node would take total output of any Engineers operating on it, reduce it by X (to keep itself alive) and divides the rest of the output among anything within its radius that needs repairs.

    Temporary Upgrades: Potentially part of the Repair Tool cert tree, engineers directly repairing a MAX, vehicle, or turret have a chance to add a temporary upgrade. (Short duration & could include increased resistance to explosives/small arms, reduced overheat, etc.)


    Ultimately, it's up to the player whether they decide to play as an Engineer for fun, as a team member, or not at all. Adding anything to the class would require extensive testing and balancing, and would more than likely result in community backlash. However, it seems unlikely that a small XP increase will, of its own accord, entice more players to be the Engie Planetside deserves, AND the one it needs right now.
    • Up x 2
  2. MasterDemoman

    >Implying Engi isn't relevant when we have LAs and Infiltrators running arond
    • Up x 6
  3. somefriggnidiot


    It's not so much that they're irrelevant as it is that there's really no point (from the player's perspective) to be one unless piloting a vehicle and supplying your own repairs. From a perspective of support positions (namely Medics vs Engies,) Engies get screwed over on XP when actually doing their support role. There's just not enough incentive to actually play the part of the repairman when the healer can get more XP by just sitting behind cover with a group of friendlies and spamming "F."
  4. PostalDude

    I'd love to see a anti-air turret, or deployable cover.
    • Up x 1
  5. Nuubo

    Ofcourse there is..... EXPLOSIVES !!! (and unlimited ammo).


    1. Drop Ammo Pack
    2. ....
    3. Profit
  6. WyrdHarper

    Or they could remove the exp cap for ammo & repairs. Nothing more frustrating to risk yourself supplying ammo in the front lines as your faction moves up, repairing maxes and tanks, or to repair a sunderer under fire, trying not to explode, only to see RESUPPLY and REPAIR flash on your screen with no exp gain. Doubling exp gain would just get you to this point faster :(
    • Up x 1
  7. Quiiliitiila

    I'd like to see a complete re-imagining of the class. Give us a LOT more stuff we can build on the spot and allow us to choose multiple loadouts of these deployables at once. Why can I only have a turret out? I was under the impression that the engineer was supposed to be the ultimate utility class! Since when did that turn into the one trick pony class? We should be able to choose up to 3 or 4 deployables and have them ready for deployment at any time.

    Make a ton of new deployables like walls, jammers, elevators, small trenches, etc. Then give each engineer the ability to choose like 3 or 4 of them to use like normal. Then we'd actually be able to strategically place barricades, walls jump pads, etc. and actually make more of an impact on the battle other than just giving out ammo like candy.
    • Up x 2
  8. TheIllusionKing

    I have to say that I definitely agree. Engies not only have a lack in XP gain by support methods, the combat is lacking as well without your own tank or fully certed Harasser. Normally, I'm on the edge of a battle with an AV turret, trying to get to the highest possible place only to find that I have to use my turret and only that in order to have any helpful effect. The carbines are useless at the ranges that the AV turret is effective, and vice versa. And in early-game, resource lack and cooldown timers keep me from constantly having my own pet MAX, tank or harasser. The Engie needs to either have more supportive roles, live OP suggested, or have better combat roles, like the ability to use Assault Rifles or different turret options.
    • Up x 1
  9. Takara


    You are implying LA's are not relevant? I sir prepose you and a good chunk of the planetside universe are simply ignorant to how good the LA actually is. I can not tell you how often, specifically at tower fights, I have seen one or another empire lose a fight because they are not fielding enough LA. I mean...seriously almost no one field them in these fights. I almost ALWAYS go LA in a tower fight when assaulting a tower. I jump up to the point inside the tower behind the enemy and flip the point. Sometimes I hold it for a few seconds, other times I hold it for much longer. But EVERY time I do...I think ****...If there was five or six more LA's doing this right now not only could we hold this point we could turn this whole fight.

    LA has plenty of great uses...it just takes more imagination to use...it isn't like the HA that just says "HAVE GUN MOVE TOWARD ENEMY!" LA is about flanking...I almost always run out of ammy with my LA because I kill one or two and jump and hide somewhere else. No one looks up in this game...it is hilarious. The other day I got some 40 odd kills with 6 bricks of c4 in 4 lives when the TR where defending a biolab. Imagination leads LA to great places son ;-)

    Infiltrators...well I agree there needs to be more ways for them to influence the battlefield. If only doors actually exsisted in this game....that would be their nitch...but alas no doors.
  10. IronWarrior

    OP hasn't joined a outfit or play in squad it seems because I love to see how he and whatever outfit/squad he ever does join try to defend and hold a point when they all start to run out of ammo.
    • Up x 2
  11. SirIBON

    Yes, yes the old not Teamplay problem.
    far-sightedness also not present.....
    Sorry for my answer. But with "ONLY" you can hold nothing. You need Ammo and Healing, EVER.
    You can prepare a cappoint, but without supplies. You will die there nearly ever.
    This is the Engineer part of the Forum, but even in the LA part there is not much understanding about teamplay. Read there, a lot go in the direction "WHY can _I_ Not......" (e.g. destroy sunderer, meleefighting Maxes and win, get a Tool, a rocketlauncher, a aussaultrifle and something to play with...)

    The LA hast the option to fly, you benefit most if you are few. If it becomes common to be attacked from the top, then more people would look up.
    Gratz for this nice kills, but what effect you have done? Only Exp?

    Hihi, most people do not understand what Infiltrators, that teamplay can do for their team.
    Is has mostly nothing to do with killing and being invisible. you get a tip. You should teammate with an Engineer, as all other also :)

    So speaks someone that likes and knows Teamplay.

    Back to the Topic.
    Engineers and Medics are known als Supporter. Good Supporters do the Job for their Team.
    "They think in an other way, from what benefits my team most."

    I would grant you more Exp, the Cap could be the Problem.
    What Medics get is much, but who cares?
    The Job the Supporters do is important for the whole team.
  12. Takara

    For part one...I don't understand why HA/Medic get access to C4 honestly. Medics are support infantry and they already carry rather powerful rifles. I don't think they should have any Anti-vehicle equipment at all...I mean they can already bring people back from the dead. Is that not powerful enough? If you run into a tank with a medic...either keep your HA/LA/Eng alive or run away...that should be your option! But like many games people suffer from the "WHY CAN'T I DO ...." But it is funny because in this game...you can. A single person can do EVERYTHING...all they need to do is go back to an equipment terminal. It isn't hard...the ******* things are everywhere and it is free!


    As for the second one line, actually yes. I moved my fraction into the A point by killing the mass groups of engi's+maxs repairing or medics getting them up. It felt great to effect the battle so much. We did not end up winning the fight because the zerg ended up having to fall back when our own biolab was threatened. But I just used this example to prove that LA is a viable option plenty of times when used correctly. It is only gimped because people don't use it enough to learn that. And lastly, the goal of a LA isn't to be an overwelming force by itself...if you flew up onto a point the idea is that you do hold it long enough for some of your team to push up to you. This doesn't always happen, yes you will need an engi sometime soon...but with out the LA they may never have gotten to push up there to start with. So what is more important? The engi given ammo or the guy who took the point and needs the ammo?
  13. SirIBON

    The Engy. Everybody can go to the A Point, but only the Engy can give Ammo to all.
    Think about it, there are many LA and Infiltrator (sniper) that take additional Clips instead of Armour. Sometimes they are called "Lone Wolfs". But even with the addtional Clips they enlarge only the Time. At least they need Ammo, or die before it runs out.
    If the Clips are empty, you are worthless, sorry but this is fact and i think you know that :)
  14. Sock

    I am absolutely baffled that anyone could think engineers struggle when it comes to gaining XP.
    • Up x 5
  15. makrome

    Engineers parking themself on an ammo pack and having the S carbine might be something to try out.
    Having AI/AV mines or C4 could make a cert here and there.
    Being run over while repairing other peoples can be avoided (unless it's a magrider maybe)

    Oh, and good luck to get those disabled generators/turrets/terminals up without engineers.
  16. Quiiliitiila

    I think it's more along the lines of the fact that engineers gain less XP for what they do as compared to medics. Medics get rofl amounts of certs and xp from healing and rezzing and when a fully certed medic gets into the frey AoE healing rezzing and throwing rez grenades they earn A TON more xp and certs than an engineer can ever hope to make in the same amount of time.

    Plus all of the sources of engineer XP has a some sort of XP cap that once hit keeps them from gaining any more xp from the source for a while (3 or 5 minutes? Not sure the exact duration of the cap, never timed it). This gets annoying as we (engineers) are constantly repairing stuff and putting down ammo packs and medics are doing the same thing with AoE heals, heals, rezzes, rez grenades, etc. However, our XP sources caps out and medic's XP sources don't. How's that fair? Our tool has a heat bar and will stop working after a small amount of continuous use, but (last I checked, I never NEVER play as medic) the medic's tool does not have a maximum use timer.

    The OP was trying to illustrate what I just re-illustrated, we don't STRUGGLE to gain XP per say, but the next closest class to our playstyle and XP gain mechanic (medic) does it much better and gains much more XP in a shorter amount of time than the engineer.

    ---

    Now, as I already said a few posts up; if the engineer had a crap ton of stuff to do and build on the field, this wouldn't be an issue. However, we can only repair things and give out ammo. Because that system of XP gain is worse than the medic's system (even though they are nearly identical) we could use a significant buff to the XP gain or XP per amount of time cap.

    Or just give us more stuff. I can GUARANTEE that ALL of the engineer who play this game would opt for more crap to fabricate at once rather than just a flat XP per tic boost.

    Knowing SOE, they are just gonna boost the XP and give us another cash shop turret or wall and say that the class has be "re-vamped"... I hope I'm wrong.

    -Quiil
    • Up x 1
  17. Soporific

    Maybe I'm playing wrong, but it's a cert farm compared to all the other classes I've played.

    1. Drop ammo
    2. Repair guy/turret/whatever
    3. Nail people with the Warden
    4. Mine area
    5. Collect certs
    6. Go to sanc, drop ammo and collect XP while deciding how to spend certs.

    ~S
  18. Quiiliitiila

    Replies in red, or should've I done purple for my empire? :p
  19. Donaldson Jones



    Well resupply of ammunition is arguably the most vital part of the engineer's repertoire of abilities in my opinion. Additionally being a class that specializes in Area denial, mining or C-4 of sundies (utility pouch upgrade etc) they can wreck havoc on the enemies ability to sustain an advance.

    In terms of personal ability I find dropping my ammo pack (can't do that as LA) on the floor and using my under-barrel grenade launcher while continually reloading said grenade launcher, a great source of exp, kills and has a bonus effect of area denial on a smaller scale whether offensive or defensive in nature. I use my turrets in specialized situations, such as sustaining a line, once again it's area denial just applied to defense.

    Of course there are many other things that you can do in a vehicle-cenrtic sense but most of those are well known. In my opinion the class is good.
  20. Soporific

    Yeah it's true the packs top out, but if you move to another hex it starts up again, also after a period of time from what I've seen.

    Heh, the only other class I haven't played is a medic actually, I mean you gotta have some standards. ;) I guess my main point was that the engineer is relevant when you are doing what engineers are supposed to do. I do wish the repair tool didn't have a heat meter, since it's pretty much impossible to keep a turret alive even with 3 engineers repairing it and a tank wailing on it. To me that would add a challenge.

    And I would have written this in blue, but I don't want to ruin your eyesight. o_O

    See you out in the field!

    ~S