AIRCRAFT: The small fight killers and large fight nonfactors. Let's fix it.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by NoXousX, Aug 28, 2013.

  1. KenDelta

    Well aircrafts do have roles in big fights , their roles come when their teammates are able to secure a "Foothold" , you know just like in action war movies , Gain foothold > Destroy enemy Sam site(AA) > Call in the airstrikes.

    Example : Indar excavation site , Aircrafts can raid in once infantry troops secure B and C , they could either bomb the tower or deny any reinforcements coming from Quartz ridge/Helios.
    The only problem I see with Aircrafts is the render mechanics , they can be "outrendered" by lockon heavies and burster maxes.
  2. HellasVagabond

    So you want a Flying Fortress to take more than just two AP shells (basically i've hit like 50-100 liberators with my Vanguard AP and some required 3 shots, not 2) and also make it more agile ? Agility is not actually a problem, speed is, however you can't expect something that's 2+ times the size of the other ESFs to be able to travel almost as fast right ?

    Personally i think the Liberator is a great farming tool but only for people who know how to use it. People who fly 200m of the ground and looking to get easy kills SHOULD get blown out of the sky. The ones who can do that from 500m+ are also people who have thousands of kills in it so i'd say that proves it's ok.
  3. UberBonisseur

    I agree with the title alone.

    Because:


    Since then, AA has been nerfed, and air bullies are back.
    No sign of ESFs in 48v48 though.
    • Up x 1
  4. Cswic

    So the lib is a large easy target that is a flak magnet? Not sure what that makes a galaxy then.

    Libs eat dumbfires constantly? I doubt it unless they're hovering in which case well, you're hovering, you should not be hovering usually. Even just a lazy circle strafe is enough to avoid dumbfires.

    Yeah I agree with the fact that current AB tanks are going to mess things up and like the majority of other people, think that it should be separate cert lines for each bonus.

    Anyway, another thread about "aircraft" or "the air game", ctrl+f "galaxy", nowhere to be found in the entire front page.
  5. BengalTiger

    In the original post there is a situation of a lone airplane (lone Liberator) going up against an enemy force.

    In a small battle it often works, in a larger one it often doesn't.
    Not surprising, and that's the way it should be.

    Tips to survive:

    -If the enemy has overwhelming numbers, get backup. In a battle of 100 vs 100, it'll take not one but 10-15 Libs working together to tip the balance.

    -If your vehicle can't counter a given threat, call a few buddies to defend against it.
    PS 2 is a team game, have fighter escorts if you worry about interceptors. Have a few fighters/tanks/buggies/commandos who could hunt down AA if you can't find and kill them on your own.

    -If the battle is big and everyone is dying left and right, expect to die yourself. Nobody is special.
    The more friendlies present, the more targets the enemy has to shoot, the less damage is done per friendly.
    • Up x 3
  6. Bill Hicks

    Sony devs will read this well thought out post. Ponder for a few moments. Then Proceed to get the Engineer anti air turret ready to launch ( making sure it has infinite range rockets and a absurdly large hitbox)
  7. Patrician

    One way, I think, to make the Liberator more useful would be to give it weapons as in PS; as vets will remember, in PS Liberators were true bombers, their weapon was, literally, dropped from the aircraft, so carpet bombing from maximum altitude was a viable, and very useful, tactic.

    I'm not suggesting that the current weapons be removed but I do think that the "true bombing" weapon system should be added; preferably as it was in PS, with two bomb modes.

    1. One single high powered bomb (AV Mode (sort of))
    2. A lot of smaller scatter bombs (AI Mode (sort of))
  8. GigaClutch

    One of the main problems for ESF's in large battles is their inability to damage sunderers.

    Rotaries barely dent them, and rockets barely do anything. Sure you can take it out if you stay for a good while and spend most all of your ammo, but by that time they will have pulled bursters and/or lock-ons and forced you off.
    Even in numbers ESF's are ineffective against sundies.

    But the real kicker is one engineer can take it out for less resources (3 tank mines being 225 infantry resources, which are always abundant)

    If ESF's could damage sundies, not just farm the infantry around them. Then they would provide a huge asset to the battle.

    But. There is no simple way of doing this, buffing rocket pods is obviously out of the question, nerfing the sundy also. So we need to innovate.

    BOMBS, for the love of god bombs. I cant think of anything that would promote teamwork and have a large effect than bombs. Imagine this, base being captured, whole squad of ORGANISED ESF's with bombs fly over, defenders = :eek:, sundy dies, heavy casualties.
    Of course they would be pretty useless on one ESF, doing under 1/2 damage total to a MBT and such so no annoying bs with instant death unless it is done right. Also I dislike the idea of anti infantry bombs as ESFs are good enough AI as is, plus it would almost certainly be an 1 hit kill and that would suck, so no specialised AI ones at all.

    But I think that the game needs more "Oh S***!" moments. I have fond memories of beta when you would see 5+ tanks and soil your pants, now even a huge gal spam is rather boring.
    • Up x 3
  9. SushiCW

    Good post.

    I agree with most of your suggestions. I don't think ESFs should get laser-guided weapons, though: leave that as a Liberator specialty.

    Definite +1 to the fuel pods comment. I run a Mossie with fuel pods and rotary as my primary role, and the current PTS buffs are silly OP.
  10. Dingus148

    Hey, look! A solid idea from PS1 that should be implemented!

    While you're at it, split aircraft into 2 kinds, a la PS1. ESFs (hybrid A2A/G hover ninjas) and ESI(nterceptor)

    Initial ideas I'd like to see are fast, fragile, immune to lockons, given a high ROF nosegun, only has hover to land (more conventional flight model, perhaps even with air physics!) and is a nuisance for libs/gals but a real hazard for ESFs. ESFs can chase them off, but only so far. You need ground based flak, not lockons (immune, right? Dedicated flyboys, rejoice!). They would, of course, be vulnerable to each other, deadly to ESFs (which would chase off heavier air and support ground assaults) and largely unable to affect the ground game. Happy to change this suggestion if anyone has a better model, but I'm adamant that the ESF doesn't become air superiority. It's flight model is unique, and I love it. BUT...it's a freaking helijet. It's custom made for ground assault. Forcing it towards aerial superiority is just dumb.
  11. Thurwell

    I think the liberator should be more effective in ground support during large fights. Not loitering above the fight bombing the heck out of everything, but able to make high altitude passes through the fight, get some kills on hopefully key targets, and escape with at least half health. ESFs in large fights would then stick to the outskirts for ground support or high altitude A2A duties, protecting or attacking those libs. The libs inability to loiter over a fight means that it helps, but doesn't completely dominate the fight while you scramble fighters to go finish it off.

    You know what I just described? The role of a Planetside 1 liberator.
    • Up x 3
  12. GigaClutch

    Bump, this is an important thread.
    • Up x 1
  13. PWGuy93

    I wish this were true. :p As a player that prefers infantry over any vehicle play I would relegate all air to the border regions but in reality I don't see that happening. There will always be players who abuse game mechanics. :eek:

    The current trend is getting every person of any skill level in a faction in an air vehicle and attack the spawn rooms while the vet pilots keep them protected. It actually is quit effective, there are so many that HA weapon lockons don't work, Maxes are even stuck in spawn rooms. The very same thing will happen even with changes to loadouts.

    My question to the OP, have you played on Hossin yet?
    If so, do you think that terrain and base design changes also impact the style of play for air?, that air is now more focused on other air because of the design changes?

    It is my feeling that we're just in the midst of continent changes, Esamir is an example, Hossin a greater example. They both separate and move vehicle play away from Infantry to a degree, making vehicle on vehicle play more relevant.

    I get the point, what purpose do air serve, heck what are tanks for? Players find creative ways to utilize them in ways that they find enjoyable and not necessarily how they would be used in real life. What I have suggested before is a greater role for vehicles, that keeps players happy and engaged. In return we're going to see Energy become part of the resource metagame. They still haven't stated what the supply vehicles are Air might be a transport and new target, they have discussed making the Galaxy transport vehicles, making the warpgate actually bring you AND your vehicle to other continents... basically I think there are plans to make air and ground vehicles more engaging, give them a greater purpose and at the same time remove some of the frustrations infantry have with them.

    As a ground player Liberators have never really plagued me, they are as you suggest slow easy targets for lockons and AA, but add one or two rocketpod flyers and now liberators which hover over spawn rooms are the plague.

    No matter the designers intentions, game players have and will always find alternative play styles not intended. A Sunderer parked on the stairs inside a base so tanks outside can't directly hit them probably wasn't by design. Rocketpods on spawn room shields probably wasn't a design goal. Point being any changes will lead to styles of play that can and will be exploited thus with any game, we see nerfs, then buffs, then nerfs, then buffs just like internet security, it's always changing trying to keep up to create a semblance of balance.

    You have good suggestions, I "think" I get what your saying.

    /haven't had caffeine yet, excuse the rambling
  14. Corporate Thug

    I have 2 thumbs, WHY CAN I NOT THUMB THIS POST UP TWICE?!?
    • Up x 3
  15. KlyptoK

    The way I see it, a well-piloted Liberator has the ability to prevent or delay me from making a truly massive impact in the region that I am in. Therefore it indirectly has a large impact factor on the battlefield and must be targeted by all NC in the region as soon as possible.

    : ]
  16. GamerOS

    Seriously, why are you shooting a Sunderer with Rotaries? Rotaries are AA weapons meant for shooting other ESF primarily, this is like someone complaining they can't do much damage against tanks using a HE cannon, if you need to shoot ground vehicles then use the default weapon, much more effective.

    It's not the games vault that you and every other ESF pilot runs with the Rotary/Rocket combo like everyone else, heck if the Rocket pods hadn't been nerfed you would be able to kill those sunderers even easier.
  17. Zeblasky

    Great ideas, but the whole problem rests in one question - can we make libs more effective than ESFs in large fights? As a mossy and a bit of a liber pilot I can say, that, even with my lag, I can effectively strike enemy forces and get out alive in 48vs48 areas with my ESF thanks to my agility(by the way, flying in areas with heavy AA is just so much fun and adrenalin!), but I will most certanly die in my lib. I can probably deal some serious damage with my gunner before I die, but still, it's a suicide run. So the only teamwork way to strike enemy from the sky in a large fight is a ESF team. Or a lucky fleet of liberators.
  18. GigaClutch

    When did I say that whats all I do. I was stating that they don't do much, nothing more.

    And not every pilot runs rockets/rotary. Especially not on Miller. I personally haven't used rockets since launch. AB pods are much better for me. Hence the reason if in the rare case I am engaging a sundy, I need to use my rotary.
  19. Corporate Thug

    I think one solution to part of this problem is to simply base the resource cost of vehicles on it's load out. Such as an ESF with rocket pods should cost more than an A2A kitted ESF. Perhaps a base cost + each weapon carries additional resource costs.

    I think it could work in a way that you are granted relatively low costs if you wish to use your vehicle with in certain roles, but that price increases when you choose to use it for other roles such as...

    Lightning(250)+AP(150)+any Chassis and combination of other slots(50)=450
    or
    Lightning(250)+C75 Viper(50)+any Chassis and combination of other slots(50)=350
    or
    Lightning(250)+Skyguard(100)+any Chassis and combination of other slots(50)=400

    I used the lightning because no one ever complains about balancing when it comes to that vehicle and it seems as if it was intended as an anti-infantry vehicle with some anti-armor capability. My thoughts are that something such as a MBT who would specialize in AI would cost more than a MBT that is fitted for AP.

    I think this could help balance vehicles more as well as help balance most of the smaller engagements. I don't see any answers to giving more survivability to air in larger fights except the obvious one which is to use team work to help take out some of the AA, such as infiltrators going in and killing those lock on heavies or hacking AA turrets.
    • Up x 1
  20. GamerOS

    So you have your aircraft fit for dogfighting and then the issue is that you can't use that to shoot vehicles on the ground, how is this a problem?
    • Up x 1