I seriously don't understand how devs think this is fair

http://4.bp.************/-U2kx9Gfisq4/Tf96N17xrNI/AAAAAAAADys/imDlh0yknqY/s400/Straw-man3.jpg

It's funny that you keep pointing back to asymmentrical design and faith in the developers in your defense of the JH, and yet have no quantitative data to support your claims, despite the mountains of evidence against you. It's also funny that you keep citing the JH's limited range as a drawback, the very same argument people used to defend the other shotguns for months before they were nerfed by SOE in their (according to you) infinite wisdom.

As if that weren't enough, you basically say that thousands of Lasher users are failing to see what you, with your obviously superior perspective on the subject, know for fact - that the Lasher is just as deadly as the JH, those thousands of players "are doing it wrong". And then you have the nerve to call him biased.

It's clear at this point that you have spent no appreciable time with the Lasher OR the JH, you keep repeating the same tired, flimsy argument over and over again, as if repetition will somehow make it more credible. By all means, show us ignorant players how to TRULY shine with the Lasher, since you're so knowledgeable on the subject.

Use it in a squad setting to spam a door when holding or penetrating a point. Seriously, try it with a handful of people in your squad. Just try it. I think you'll be surprised.

I'm BR59 on my VS and have plenty of experiencing using it.

All the shotgun nerfs bypassed the jackhammer. Why? Because its damage and ROF were already lower than all other shotguns (and still are), hence my point that other shotguns are better in certain scenarios.

But perhaps SOE buffs the Lasher in an upcoming update. If there's good reason behind it, I'm totally cool with that, in fact I'd welcome it because I play my VS more than my NC nowadays. But objectively, I'd say that would be a mistake because I think it's a great weapon as-is and is catering to the VS tryhards that dominate these forums.

I'm just tired of trying to compare these weapons on stats like TTK because they are fundamentally designed to be very different and comparing them along those lines is an exercise in futility. SOE purposefully, methodically designed them to NOT be equal to introduce some diversity in the game, and all anyone wants to do is compare every stat imaginable and say "doesn't match!" and ignore other aspects of the weapon that aren't obvious in the stats.

Hey another person who uses god forbid

As long as we're cherry picking, I guess I'll do it too.


You're not saying anything that someone who owns a Lasher doesn't already know. That is the ONLY situation that it's even marginally useful in. Even in that role the advantage is dubious, as any weapon (or anyone with an UBGL, for that matter) can cover a doorway. In fact, a shotgun would do just as well. And they do, as anyone who owns one can tell you.

We KNOW it's useful for farming some kills off a doorway in the middle of a cluster ****. What it's not useful for is literally any other situation. Both the JH and MCG remain competitive in a wider variety of situations than that Lasher, which is why they see more success as indicated by higher kill rates.

BTW, as long as we're talking about the design of weapons, at the end of the day weapons are designed to kill people. If a weapon is poor at killing people, it's a poor weapon. KPH is the primary metric in determining a weapon's effectiveness in this capacity. I realize that there may be other subsidiary roles that weapons play, and that KPH does not always account for these, but to simply discount it out of hand because it suits your point is "myopic", as you would say.

You can theorycraft all you want, at the end of the day the numbers indicate that the Lasher is simply terrible at killing people compared to the JH - no amount of verbal wit can change that. And that's what's being disputed here.

Then im sure you wont mind if the lasher had its damage tripled to bring it on par with the others?

Still doesn't damage my tank so whatever dude.

Well you're certainly entitled to that opinion, I am able to get plenty of kills with the Lasher when I use it where it's intended. The Jackhammer can't spam a doorway the way the lasher can, so I don't use it in that setting. A sniper rifle is poor for CQC, so I don't use it in that setting.

I think SOE tried to make differentiated weapons, and the Lasher is a very, very unique weapon that isn't like any other weapon. It absolutely excels in some situations and is useless in other, just like every weapon. It doesn't make it good, bad, underpowered or overpowered, and I applaud SOE for not making every weapon exactly the same with different aesthetics.

Ultimately, we just disagree. I respect your viewpoint but I just fundamentally disagree and we're going to get nowhere.

I'll leave it up to our good friends at SOE to adjust as they see fit, but I think it's a great weapon and most calls for buffs/nerfs of ANY weapon are unfounded and made by people who just don't understand what the game is all about.

Finally, I'd really like to see that original graphic with "# of unlocks" -- I think that is a big factor for the discrepancy. Obviously if more people use a weapon, you'll see more kills with that weapon.

As you say, while I completely disagree with your position on a fundamental level, I respect your restraint.

Breaking news - VS have 1 gun that isn't OP!

The fact you have so many thumbs up proves the idiocity of the TR and NC posting in this thread

These weapons are all Empire specific heavy weapons

And NC have one gun that is

See, that's balance, because between the the two factions all is fine.

I don't use the MCG myself even after the buff, but as far as proving the OPness of a weapon I do agree that this is a pretty worthless stat.

Also I don't see the devs favoring another faction, certainly not intentionally. That's a pretty ridiculous claim. I'm willing to concede that the Lasher probably needs a serious re-tooling due to it's propensity for killing team-mates, whoever thought that was a good gun mechanic needs to be taken out back and beaten (figuratively, of course).

Since his last update the lasher is just an useless ****. Without splash damage it has no meanings.

No it does not, this has been nerfed to the ground. That's the whole point.

No, you can. But it takes a long time.
Also, it's not been nerfed as much as people have been unlocking flak and nanoweave armour.

However, as stated before, the lasher does well at door denial, but compared to the alternatives, it doesn't do it better than they do.
In addition to being "limited" to only the doorways.
Or as a humiliation tool in normal fighting.

However, good players should see better performance at all tasks(bar the doorway) using a traditional LMG over the Lasher.
And traditional LMGs are fairly competent at doorway spam, too, be it at more of a reactionary pace.