Is anything being done about NC maxes and Zoe Maxes?

Discussion in 'MAX' started by xThundergodx, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. xThundergodx

    I would like to get some sort of answer out of the staff, really wanna know if they think those 2 are fine as is or if there are changes on the way. Im sure people have their own opinions about both, some are biased some are not but if u gonna give your input at least read the whole post of why i think both need changes.

    1-NC Maxes:
    Giving a max shotgun was a bad move since the very start since those are very hard to balance, they used to be extremely power but after the last nerf they are useless outside 10m and not that superior inside those ranges compared to the other maxes.
    Now with the added walls on Esamir preventing tank spam, maxes became alot more vital in base pushes/defenses and NC is really screw over since shotguns small range make it usefull only in door guarding and cannot be used to provide cover for their forces and sustain fire against enemie forces to keep them at bay. I would rather see shotguns removed and be given a similar gun as VS/TR, since it would alot easier to balance.

    Couple things to keep in mind about the current NC Maxes:
    1-Shield is near useless, it dosent work well with shotguns since u gotta get close to use them and you gotta sacrifice charge to get shield, also your forced to move at walking distance while it is on making it impossible to close the distance if your target is moving. Shield also dosent fully protect your front and dosent last all that long, might be a better ability if NC had medium range weapons since u could stay at a safer distance unload fire and pull the shield up when things got really hot.

    2-Despite NC maxes in theory being the strongest in close range right now if a kinetic 5 armor NC meets any other max with kinetic 5 he will lose because he cannot finish the opponent of before he is forced to reload, and that means death against TR/VS since they can keep firing due to much larger maganizes and finish the NC off on the 4s it is reloading.

    2-Zoe Maxes:
    Maxes entire balance resides on the fact that they are much sturdier than regular infantry but are very slow, giving any max an ability to deny the down side of being a max is beyond moronic.Zoe maxes are also alot harder to c4 and hit with rockets since they can move alot faster, it is also near impossible to run from one since unlike any other max they can give chase.
    Now in a Max versus Max things might be balanced since the extra movement speed wont help you much against another Max that has similar health and firepower (i think it is fine against TR but NC is a bit screwed since any decent Zoe Max can use the extra movement to keep its distance denying NC advantage at close range) the problem of Zoe lies in its insane power against infantry since the usual counters dont work well (c4/rockets).

    Couple things to keep in mind about the current Zoe Maxes:
    1-The 30% extra damage from small firearms is a joke and far from being enough to balance the skill. Even if a default Max keeps the ability on due to its natural resistance to small firearms it is still much sturdier than any infantry in the game so a Zoe Max can go inside a room with 3-4 infantry and still gun them down and survive because of its natural defenses.

    2-The extra damage from small firearms can be pretty much denied by kinetic armor. As i said before rockets and c4 are harder to use against Zoe, so your usually forced to relly on small firearms to take them down, getting kinetic armor on a Zoe max is pretty much a no brainier.

    3-Contrary to rumors running around Zoe maxes DO NOT take increased damage from rockets/c4, i own a decimator and those will take away 75% of a Max health on a direct hit which is 1 bar and a half, on a Zoe Max with the increased damage it takes it would 1 shot them but it dosent which makes me believe that they dont take extra damage. Also before anyone says anything flak armor DO NOT reduce the damage from direct hits only from the blast.

    4-Zoe maxes ability can be used just like a Heavy assaults shield.I know most people are not smart enough or just lazy to actually make the most of the ability but since it has no cooldown you can keep Zoe on when your outside combat and turn it down once you engage the enemie. Basically you can use Zoe to get inside a room for example turn it off when you start fighting (hello no more extra damage where is the balance again?), turn it on again if u need to chase the enemie/run or dodge rockets/c4, the ability works exactly like a Heavys shield the only difference is you turn it off when you come in contact with the enemie.

    Sorry the post got so long what im asking is that both the NC Maxes and Zoe gets reworked since as it stands balancing either is quite complicated and is very likely to make one or the other OP or UP whenever changes are made.
    • Up x 9
  2. TheFullCologne

  3. VanuSovereignty

    Did you try concussion grenades?
  4. Outlier

    SAD TR MAX says:

    "I also exist as a waste of 350 infantry resources"
    • Up x 4
  5. Curse_Gamerkin

    NC maxes "useless" from every scatmax i hear farmin biolabs that its only biolabs i see them zerging all over indar in a scatmax locking down spawn rooms. "useless outside of biolobs" and this idea that NC maxes have an effective range is false, shotguns can be spammed and the pellets keep going, and those shotguns have slugs, you can be sniped by a NC scatmax. All Scatmaxs do is complain yet they will earn more xp and easy kills than any other max, besides pre nerf ZOE.
    • Up x 3
  6. Nhilys

    On a direct hit, both direct damage and blast damage are inflicted, the blast damage part is in fact modified by flak armor, it's also possible to deactivate ZOE right before getting hit by a rocket and reactivating it right away.
    • Up x 2
  7. Flashtirade


    So tell me how your shotguns perform out to 20 meters then. No slugs obviously.
  8. Goretzu

    It's impossible to "snipe" with an NC AI MAX and slugs, it has the same CoF as pellets (i.e. huge), the damage is front loaded though, so a luck shot will do a reasonable amount of damage, but they may well have to empty a clip or more at you to get a hit.

    There's a reason you see a bazillion TR AI MAXs and very few NC AI MAXs these days.
    • Up x 4
  9. lilleAllan

    Shotguns are so stupid since they often reduce encounters to a game of rock-paper-scissors.
    Are you within 10 m? NC MAX will win unless he''s terrible. Outside 10 m? NC MAX is borderline worthless. It also makes encounters insanely dull - if the maxes had more equal footing, then you wouldn't know the outcome of the fight before it even began. It's not good balancing to have a weapon be insanely overpowered at close range and completely worthless at anything beyond that.

    "Oh but that just means shottie users employ a different skillset - the skillset of tacticool positioning and situational awareness."
    Learning this advanced skillset means mastering the difficult art of staying inside buildings where ypu can't get caught in a ranged encounter. Moving to the next building? Check your minimap first. There, super fun playstyle, very strategic.
    • Up x 2
  10. Radian12

    ZOE maxes are now rare. 2-3 Maxes in big fights is not a lot .
  11. Curse_Gamerkin

    when you have 2, 1 on each arm, how many pellets you think will miss? only 2-3 have to hit for ur target to lost their sheild and maybe some health. And TR mercies dont perform as well at 20m either, Except that NC maxs can instagib at 10m and less, where as any other max has to aim, has a longer TTK and in that time can be C4d by a 10yr old with a light assault. Stop thinking your dual shotgun max is broken when every base is CQB, and your maxes have enjoyed months without any nerf, and the moment a biolab is being attacked you have 30 scatmax sitting around every door. obviously its just too weak thats why no NC uses them.
    • Up x 1
  12. Curse_Gamerkin

    Bazillion TR maxs? when.. TR maxs lack any kind of defense, they dont have a shield to hide behind, and when that light assault with C4 floats over you, who will kill it faster before he sets off the C4, the instagib shotguns or the spray and pray miniguns?
    • Up x 2
  13. Dramonicous

    The way I see it... give VS MAX jumpjets and refund the Zoidberg On Ecstasy.
    It is a hell lot less OP than the current ZOE.
    When I play VS MAX with ZOE I use max ranked ZOE with nano regen, I play without dedicated engineer and often solo.
    Even with those great disadvantages I usually end up killing between 20-60 infantry per life, or equally many vehicles if using dual vortex.

    As for the NC MAX I find the shotguns being too OP while used in defensive manner, but outside the NC MAX got jack ****.
    No good AA/AV alternative or long range AI (Bursters suck, Raven is slow as hell and cant hit infantry at all in close range, the vanilla AV gun is the same as VS comet was pre buff but with added bullet drop WTF)

    MAX shotguns either need to be removed or we need NS shotguns added, aswell as NS mid-long range guns.
    • Up x 2
  14. Fang7.62

    Mattocks with extended mags can kill at 10-20m reasonably fast, though nowhere near fast as other empires AI weapons and it takes almost entire mag that has a long reload and other maxes kill infantry almost as fast as scats in shotty range so it doesnt seem entirely fair. Only thing that the scats are better is killing other maxes at close range. KA5 or not, dual extened mags emptied into ZOE max's face will drop it really quick (thouhg not lulzy quick like the pre-nerf-pre-nerf-pre-nerf hacksaws).
    • Up x 5
  15. KenDelta

    Maxes are just fine , just change NC maxes weaponry into Gauss rifles that do 200 dmg per bullet.
    • Up x 2
  16. TheBlindFreak

    Sure we can lock down small enclosed rooms from normal infantry. What's that? Rockets have splash damage? You can fire them through the door and not even need to get a direct hit?

    NC MAX: "OH SHI-..." BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM
  17. ScottishRoss

    Of for ***** sake, not this again.

    TR MAX: Fractures are ridiculous.Double Mercys make everyone run for cover. Your lockdown, in a good position, can lock down a corridor right next to a spawn room.

    NC MAX: ScatterMAXes are literally the only MAX that make me run in the opposite direction without even thinking "Can I take this?". No, I just run and never come back. If more NC knew that the Aegis Shield lets you RELOAD YOUR GODDAMNED SCATTERMAX WITH IT UP, then you'd never see the VS or TR attack an NC biolab again.

    VS: While I agree, it is good. I have yet to see 2 or more infantry take down the a ZOE MAX within seconds. We are very squishy. And yes, we can run away fast. But nothing is more demoralising than seeing your platoons MAX crash run away back to spawn.

    If you look at the PS2 stats the NC have the best anti-infantry in the top 10, and the TR/NC have the best Anti-Armour weapons.
    • Up x 3
  18. Pikachu

    Funny post but he's not a waste of resources. It's just that he isn't scary unless he's using fractures.
  19. Patrician


    Please show evidence (video) that anyone has been "sniped" by a NC AI Max; try it in VR, and see how many shots from a Scatter Max it takes to take down a HA at 20 metres.

    Slugs are not a valid option as the COF is so large that a good percentage of the slugs you fire completely miss you target. Slightly more effective if used in conjunction with Mattocks but there goes another 1000+ Certs just to be able to hit things at 20 metres.
  20. Patrician

    To be effective a Scatter or Haxor Max has to get to within 10 metres of his target, with the Aegis Shield equipped he loses charge and it is that very same charge ability that enables the NC AI Max to get within it effective range. With Aegis Shield equipped the NC AI Max is limited to walking speed which means that all you have to do to survive is walk backwards and stop it getting close! Being able to reload while using the shield is secondary if we cannot get close enough to you to actually use our weapons effectively.
    • Up x 3