Tankers do not want to farm infantry.

Only speaking for myself.. but to me 'fun' isn't defined by target type or vehicle vs. infantry. Its defined by taking ground and dominating the enemy. If that meant running exclusively as a heavy carrying a pistol, then that is what I would do, or running ESF with just rocket pods, I'd do that (silly examples, but you see my point.. I just want the winning). I understand that to you 'fun' is defined by sitting in a vehicle doing certain things.. and that is totally cool.. I disagree with use the word 'many' in your post.. I think its closer to 'some'. I'm pretty sure you don't speak for a majority, at least seeing how many folks in this game run as infantry.

Some folks absolutely are doing as you say.. since I have seen a number of fights that took forever to resolve because they were 1) smaller fights; and 2) the accidental mix of folks was 90% folks that didn't want to give up sitting in their vehicle to help the 2 infantry assaulting the point(s). But I've ALSO seen the reverse.. assaults with all committed infantry without enough vehicles to counter the enemy vehicles hitting back.. yup.. we outnumber the vehicles.. but if they lock us out of a proper assault, who cares?

I prefer to adapt and overcome.. I'll sit in a vehicle if needed, or ground pound. Adaptability is key if winning is the real goal. In real-world armies everyone in a unit shows up to the fight and has all roles covered. In this game, I don't know if we'll have the right mix of roles 10 minutes from now when we need it (since folks are signing on/off all the time, etc. etc.). So again, I get where you are coming from.. but I think its a minority position (just as mine is).

Thankfully, this game caters to many points of view.. and that makes it totally fun... just don't try to speak for the 'majority'.. I don't think there is one. Some folks are committed infantry, some committed vehicle, some are adapters. All have their place.

Again, why even post? I get that you love driving a tank.. So what?

Because this is forumside. Entertainment doesn't stop when you leave Auraxis.

I'm down with point A. That would actually mimic real life and make the tank drivers make conscious decisions about where they would be effective weapon-wise. Right now armor on vehicles is treated as damage mitigating.. but what you are really saying is that armor should be treated as something which must be breached before damage even take place. That totally works for me. That would make the tank committed AI.

I'd say B differently.. AV should be very heavily leaning to V only.. and Heat should be significantly less advantageous against vehicles. Given what you said above.. HEAT should pierce less often, but do a LOT of damage when a pierce happens. Where as AV should be guaranteed pierce with less damage per shot. Then you balance HEAT down so that overall DPS is lower than AV. This would make HEAT good against infantry but less against vehicles.. and make it almost impossible for hitting from the front where armor is thickest.

Point C? No. I think if you did that, you'd reduce the fun factor a lot. Walking to fights to die quickly and walk again is not promoting the fun factor. I know what you are trying to solve, but I'm not sure that is the way to do it.

That's why we add a non-AMS, unarmed Sunderer variant and give it a low cost. Tanks can now siege a base to prevent those transports from leaving and getting to the next base. They're useful again.

We do need some variety of transport logistics in this game if we're going to limit certain units to the between-base areas.

Interesting idea, that. I do tend to think that based on how things currently work things wouldn't be nice and cheery for an unarmed sundy driver. I've seen too many situations that are infantry heavy/vehicle light.. what you are suggesting might encourage more cooperation.. with an emphasis on the word might. My primary experience of both PS1 and PS2 is that cooperation at a platoon level is fair, and at an inter-platoon level is poor to non-existent. Herding cats is a very apt metaphor for running a squad or platoon in PS1/2.

.......................KDR .....Kills ........deaths ..........acc% ....bullets landed ......bullets shot ........score
Titan-150 AP ....5.9 .......97,880 ...16,712 ..........42 % ....962,007 .............407,756 ............97,779,561
Titan-150 HE ....11.2 ......68,452 ...6,104 ...........48 % .....415,148 ...........199,857 .............24,371,607
Titan-150 HEAT ..7.3 ......221,896 ..30,540 ........44 % .....1,806,200 ........792,667 .............111,853,918

did you actually look at the chart? HE is the least used......... and the only reason HEAT is so high is because everyone that spawned a tank on a whim and never invested in it only can shoot HEAT. AP has a lower KDR but much higher xp per shot average compated to HE. Sorry for all the dots, the chart did not translate very well to this post. and i imagine that the reason bullets landed is higher then bullets shot for HE is because of splash.

But on a side note, thanks for the chart link, it has lots of interesting data on it.

At least for TR, our MBT is made to kill infantry. I got my *** kicked so many times when soloing an Vanguard. VS tank often jumped on me from behind or side. Our specialty is anchor mode, which is helpless in fighting another tank in most cases.

heh. I run the Armored Division for my Outfit, and whenever we drive past another squad we'll start calling them peasants.

Thanks for that antiquated thinking...it's what the French thought during WWII.

The reality is depends on the terrain, circumstance, weather and other arms available to do the job. Armor is quite capable of taking and hold terrain and controlling objectives. It's only becoming less a reality in PS2 due to changes in the game, mistaken arm chair perceptions of warfare and infantry based gaming clubs.

You know you're an 1890's kid when you still think trees can stop tanks.

He's right though. Until tanks can sit on a control point and flip a base, there will always be a use for Infantry.

I can do many things with my Vanguard, but at the end of the day you still need boots on the ground.

You mean how this game was released, before the howls from all the infantry players and leaderless units who were relunctent to regroup at the next base, or pull up a Sundy instead of being farmed from the spawn of their lost base just waiting for the clock to tic down.

What're you talking about.

He's right. Around Christmas, on attack my job as infantry was pretty much to just flip points. Tanks did most of the infantry fighting, I just killed the few stragglers stuck in buildings away from any windows or doors. It was boring as hell. Biolabs were crazy popular.

When the game was released players could capture without dismounting their vehicles. I did it many times from a tank, flash seat, as a gunner on a galaxy and ever from my ESF. There should still be a few remote and sparse bases players can cap on the fly like that instead of recreating every base so more resembles a biofarm (farm used in more than one way). Still other players spawned there on purpose for a chance to shoot someone dancing in front of the shield (a weird game)--or take LA and get some points off the enemy--for them it wasn't about getting the base anyhow.

Most of the whining about tanks spawn farming are when the defenders have essentially already lost the base, but continue to spawn from that suppressed spawn room, instead of figuring out that they'd be better off spawning at a sunder or even regrouping at the next base and mounting a counter attack. The good leaders would pull their people out so they wouldn't get farmed--bad leaders didn't.

You see part of the problem with the walled off approach is while you might have a couple hundred players around you...(and lagging you), the experience isn't much better than much smaller playered games (think BF3 metro minus the nade spam(thanfully)). You can only appreciate the large scale of PS2 when the terrain is relatively open and can see and interact with that large number.

As someone who's directed posts against tank drivers or numerous reasons. Maybe I should of prefaced those posts by saying if I didn't not in some by saying that there are MANY tank drivers who are not only skilled but do run tactical armor columns as well as play key roles in just about every battle. Some guys can name off people specifically, I'm not good with remembering gamer tags do I can't. But yes I can see how the posts lately have given tank drivers a bad name. But there are huge amounts of tank drivers who have barely any skill and roll with a Zerg and blast spawns to farm kills, these are usually the guys ******** C4 is overpowered.

Finally...the prophet has spoken. Embrace your only true god.
Look in awe upon his glorious power.

PEASANT LEARN THY PLACE FOR VANGUARD THE GREATEST SHALL HONOR YOU WITH HIS GODLY PRESENCE.




ALL HAIL MIGHTY VANGUARD!

Look at it for the Prowler and Magrider. NC uses the Vanguard more for tank killing, VS uses the Mag for both (but IIRC more infantry killing), and Prowlers are pretty much all AI and no AV.