GU13 Scout and Prox radar changes

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by Plague Rat, Jul 24, 2013.

  1. Plague Rat

    Some pretty heavy radar changes happened in GU13 that will have a bearing on our class,
    but like the good book says, DON'T PANIC!

    •Proximity Radar now updates every ½ second instead of 2 seconds
    •Proximity Radar now detects cloaked infiltrators, like the recon tool
    •Proximity Radar now only detects moving players, like the recon tool

    •Scout Radar now detects cloaked infiltrators, like the recon tool
    •Scout Radar now only functions if the vehicle is occupied

    Most notably, scout radar is no longer a set it and forget it detection tool, as it only functions while the vehicle is occupied. Which makes the class's incoming recon functionality will be more necessary and useful, and the more practical option.

    But of course there's the downside the both scout and proximity radars can now detect cloaked infiltrators, albeit proximity radar will only detect movement but with it's scan intervals reduced to 1/2 of a second, there's still a good chance of getting pinged by it if you're within 30-50m. So do so with caution.

    I can understand making the trade off on Scout since it's usefulness has been limited by needing a driver, but proximity seems a little strange. I imagine much of the changes to prox radar was done so drivers would have more of a warning of an impending light assault attack. But infiltrators are currently no threat to vehicles, so I'm curious why they would go that extra mile. Unless there is the possibility they plan on adding something of the sort in the future. I wouldn't build hopes or expectations just yet. It could just be a technical thing that makes having similar checks on radars easier/more efficient.

    At any rate, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. It's going to depend heavily on how much drivers are willing to trade their more combat oriented utilities, since the choice of taking a radar option is one that has to be made over the Vanguard Shield, Lock-down, MagBurn, IFF smoke, fire suppression, AMS, turbo boosts, and wraith cloak.

    Personally, I'm not expecting a significant increase in density of prox rader, but I think it's the obvious conclusion there will be less scouts, but what there is of both won't be so easily bypassed.

    At any rate it looks like the bulk of the recon duties are being shifted back into infiltrator hands.
    • Up x 2
  2. OAG_72

    Interesting changes. Might scare off some part-time infils.
    Thanks for summary.
  3. AnuErebus

    OMG cloak nerf! This is the end of all things infiltrator!

    Seriously though, while I don't like making infils visible on scout/proxy when cloaked and I feel air will have an easier time hunting us, this is in a way a buff to our sensor darts. Not many people actively run scout radar in a vehicle they plan on sitting in so we'll see a bit less of it on the ground. Our darts meanwhile will still work just fine so they'll become the more readily available option.
  4. DrTeeth

    I really don't like these changes. They should have made the scout radar require a driver, and left it at that. Yes, requiring a driver means it will be used less often, but when it *is* used now we're completely ****** by it. You can count on it that organised outfits will have alt accounts ready to sit in parked Flashes, which will actually be easier for them as they won't have to task people with refreshing the timer every few minutes.

    As for ESFs, they are going to farm snipers mercilessly. There will be literally no escape from a radar ESF. Cloak / don't cloak, move / stay still, it won't matter. They will not leave until your red dot is extinguished, and with pod splash they don't need to wait for you to decloak.

    On top of that, your friendly neighbourhood HE Lightning can now track you while you're cloaked, such fun.
    • Up x 3
  5. Plague Rat

    Pretty much. I've no problem taking the good with the bad.

    Keep in mind that in the case of ESFs to take scout radar they have to pass on both flares, and fire suppression, which is becoming basically a restoration kit for vehicles to repair themselves for a bit over a few seconds. I really feel a scout radar ESF aren't going to be terribly common since they'd have to choose to be a lot more killable as a tradeoff. The ones that do decide to run it probably won't be in the sky for very long, so I wouldn't stress that too much.

    As for prox radar, at max rank, which runs the driver 1200 on a lightning, it's range is 50m. I generally don't get that close to tanks on my infi. And the ones that had it could track us before every time our cloaks dropped. Now we have to be moving to be spotted, cloaked or not, so if you're in cover and still they'll drive past without pining you. It could be a problem if your approaching a stationary manned vehicle, but in the current state of the game there's not a ton of reasons to do so.

    It's a new issue to be aware of for sure, but I don't think it'll be that big of a problem.
  6. Jkar

    I think infiltrators should get some sort of anti vehicle options now that they make them into easy ESF farm. Although I am guilty of running proxy radar and killing infiltrators in the field when I spotted them, they usually weren't my highest priority for obvious reasons. Maybe it's time to add cockpit shots to ESF so you can snipe the pilot in return. ;)
  7. Hrafnagaldr

    Yeah, I'm totally gonna swap flares for the possibility to rocket pod cloaked infiltrators... NOT.
    No sane pilot would even consider this. But as a Nemeis user on my HA, this would actually be awesome, if my rockets won't be distracted by flares anymore.

    As for the Lightning: I'm running HE or HEAT shells, I dont care if an Infil is cloaked. I just need to see him for a millisecond to shoot in his general direction. Cloaks wont protect you from HE shells. And I wont swap IR Smoke or Fire Suppression on my Lightning for the radar, although it can be quite beneficial on tanks if C4 doesn't get nerfed.

  8. Aimeryan

    If they would only add in a suit slot for infiltrators to counter sensors I would be fine with all of this. The idea that some AFKer sitting on a flash somewhere is preventing me from infiltrating at all just takes the piss.
  9. K2k4

    I view the change as a buff because now most outfits will want at least one infiltrator in each squad for our radar darts. Yeah we will need to avoid active flashes and ESF pilots but that's nothing new.. It's just now when we see and hear a flash we can UCL l pick off the driver.
  10. Mythicrose12

    Suit slot would be nice....but let's be honest here. This is all about the upcoming sensory implant to remove users from radar detection. Honestly, the GU 13 radar changes won't affect me much if at all in a negative gameplay aspect. Few tanks/sundies use prox radar. If a scout equipped ESF had detected me prior to GU 13...I was pretty much in trouble already (same with a flash if I didn't manage to kill the driver). On the plus side, at least people can't just park and abandon their scout flashes anymore.
  11. Adeon

  12. Aimeryan

    The overall effect is a buff yeah. However, the idea that an AFKer on a flash sitting somewhere is what is causing so much trouble is irritating. Like the previous poster said, serious teams will just have an alt sitting on a flash somewhere.
  13. biterwylie

    This is a massive boost to infiltrators.

    They have made a huge change to the way the Scout Radar works. In effect it is no longer a passive radar as it requires the user to be on the vehicle. That right there is a game changer. It is unlikely many teams can find a person able to have an alt sat on a flash. Before you even consider the other changes you have to consider the number of scout radars is going to drop hugely.

    Of course this will work well also to help sell the Implants ;)
  14. Mustarde

    Myth: cloaking will hide you from all radar (darts, flash/mossie, prox radar on MBT's and battle buses)

    Pre-GU13 fact: Recon dart reveals moving cloaked infiltrators

    Post-GU13 fact: cloaking hides you from no active radars. None.

    I don't quite know how I feel about this yet. Obviously, I want a suit slot to shield me from radar so I can... be a stealth class. Is that too much to ask? At least we know what the mechanics are - call me a noob but I was still under the impression before today that cloaking hid me from all radar... Which may explain how I was getting tracked down even with cloak use. I will have to modify my tactics behind enemy lines slightly.

    I just wish SOE would let us be true infiltrators, able to reveal others on the map, but also stay hidden to execute our mission of covert operations.

    Just think about the stalker cloak and how these properties can potentially limit it. The sensor shield implant, or suit (if it were to be implemented) would become a manditory upgrade for us.

    Edit: don't get me wrong, I'm happy about the flash changes - that is huge. But it doesn't make me satisfied with regards to our pure vulnerability once the radar is lit.
    • Up x 3
  15. Rohxer

    I run scout radar on my ESF and have exclusively for several months. As an INFILTRATOR, this is what I should be running. Two reasons - 1) I have total awareness of all enemies in my zone, which allows (allowed now) me to park in a hidden place and do my dirty work. 2) Hunt down people flanking, sniping, or otherwise being a pain to our attack/defense. And I last plenty long in this role as I only "dog fight" when cornered by another ESF, or I come across an easy target who is not aware of me. I run with the Air Hammer and A2A or Hammer and Afterburners. Lolpods not required. So this is mostly a nerf for my playstyle. I must remain in vehicle - which means I'm not out INFILTRATING. However, as an added bonus, it makes it trivial to hunt down SNIPERS. Sorry to those who run a sniper, but your red dot + inability to escape means you're gonna die whenever I see you.

    Well that may not affect your playstyle, but it would have cancelled several good streaks I had last night. Once while sniping a base, was chased down by two lightnings and a couple of harassers. One or more clearly had prox radar as they were following me from tree to tree every time my cloak dropped. Eventually I was able to refresh my cloak to full and get out of range behind a hill and lose them, and continue my streak. No chance of that now.

    Another time last night I was going after enemy snipers, ran cloaked up to a hill with a dozen+ tanks and several enemy snipers hiding around them. Was able to knife kill several while dodging tanks between cloaking. With the new changes I wouldn't have even made it to the hilltop.

    I also run prox radar on my own tanks, so again there will be no place to hide for infiltrators who have no way to hurt me. Buff to the vehicle, harm to the infiltrator.

    Overall, despite the new requirement to remain in a vehicle, this will hurt the infiltrator class in my opinion. And yeah, it is a "cloak nerf" when an ability that used to hide us from everyone except other infiltrators now hides us from no one if just a single person in a battle pulls a radar vehicle.
    • Up x 1
  16. redsevenski

    I thought that if you were sat in/on a vehicle then the engine is running, meaning the sound is obvious and easy to track down. This will mean finding spy flashes considerably easier if they are being manned by afk-alts. If they are being used properly by people actually playing the game then fair enough.

    As for tracking cloaked infils, I don't see this as something to get excited about. Any half competent group has always used recon darts on top of scout radar to sweep a place (because why not - there is zero cost to them). The biggest disadvantaged group will be lone snipers in low population areas being picked off by ESF, but then the ESF seems to be running a huge risk to equip radar.

    The proximity radar changes wont mean much to infils either. Tanks often use thermals, so your more likely to be seen than detected by the short range radar.
  17. Hoki

    This is a great change, the only working while vehicle is occupied is awesome for the flash at least. This will pretty much end the whole permanent wallhacks problem except for like the team moms that would actually be willing to perform this role. Either way, being able to shoot their ***** off a parked bike = good enough.

    As for ESFs, very few use it anyways, but just not moving in a good hiding spot will be able to evade those guys.

    Good, good change.
  18. Get2dachoppa

    I don't see it as a massive boost. At best, it's a mixed bag but I see it leaning more towards a nerf. Yes, scout radar is no longer passive so you won't be able to park a Flash and forget about it. However, you get one person (or an alt as others have said) to play radar duty and now scout radar picks you up while cloaked. It requires more babysitting, but its also even MORE powerful now. Scout radar will detect you if you move, if you aren't moving, and now if you are cloaked too. There is literally no escaping it now.

    And with the Proximity radar changes, I damn well want something as an Infiltrator to combat vehicles even more. They have a counter for detecting cloaked infiltrators sneaking up on their vehicle. Now I want something to actually fight them with.
    • Up x 2
  19. DFDelta

    As someone who runs both regularly, a CQC Infi with SMG and tanks with proximity radar I do consider this to be a nerf to both.


    The tanks lose a lot of the offensive capabilities of the radar and some defensive capabilities against the classes that can actually hurt it and gain in return...... the ability to spot the one class that can't even hurt them.

    Infis on the other hand now have a much harder time playing around tanks and other radar users.


    Flash scout radar became more rare but at the same time more powerful.
    Now instead of parking it somewhere and protecting it on foot I might drive it around and kill stuff with my Fury... wanted to aurax that thing anyways.

    ESF scout radar is a mixed bag. In small scale battles it was immensely powerful already, as a piloted ESF with radar was a terror to deal with. This terror now also stretches to cloaked infis who had been the only class pretty much safe from those.
    In large scale battles it is a huge nerf. You can't fly them around and use them as a combat vehicle because of the high number of missiles around and parking it behind the shields is now also largely prevented (except by using alts on a second computer or whatever)
  20. Rohxer

    Wrong. Scout radar does not require movement. Only proximity radar, according to the patch notes. Scout radar sees -everything- no matter what you are doing.