Sure in the future we MAY see all kinds of things. However you can't expect to have an OP explosive in the game when everything else is broken. If we get BETTER MBTs sure noone will mind about C4. As things are now however 90% of the locations on Auraxis are a no-go zone for MBTs cause L.As are always lurking around to get easy kills. Lately even when you fight other MBTs in CQC and the other person or persons are losing the solution is simple, get out, throw C4 and explode it, voila, easy win. It's Not balanced people.
as a maxer i think C4 needs to change, i'm not a fan of damage nerfs but it needs changing in some way. heck i'd be happy if it stayed exactly how it is but needs them to actually plant it (like an engineer ammo pack maybe?) nothing worse than seeing a LA flutter over and HURL c4 across the room for an easy 1 shot. its c4, its not a grenade.
Well you can survive a brick of C4 if you go flak armor, yeah? So there's a counter right there. That's why I run flak on my max.
you shouldn't have to, maxes are primarily indoor fighters so you shouldn't need to worry too much about tanks libs and ESFs while at the same time being indoors fighting infantry makes Kinetic extremely attractive, you shouldn't have to sacrifice nanoregen/kinetic based on a single overpowered ability, instead that overpowered ability should be balanced, if they removed the ability to hurl it across the room that would fix it.
Learn to play then. I wasn't looking, I got killed. NERF SNIPER RIFLES! I wasn't looking, I got killed. NERF TANK DAMAGE! I wasn't looking, I got killed. NERF AIRPLANES! seriously?
So basically because you were caught with tunnel vision you think C4 should get a nerf. *shakes head sadly* Sounds like they got the drop on you pure and simple. Sorry but you deserved to die to C4 in this case.
I deserve to die from 1 L.A dropping from the pad on a tower and landing almost 100m away ? Are you guys serious ? So i shouldn't be focusing on MBT's moving just 200-300m away from me but i should focus on EVERY SINGLE INFANTRY on the tower ? Your defence of C4 is hilarious at best (both of your defences actually).
Yes, you deserve to die from one LA, because, apparently, you don't know how to move your vehicle. If C4 is nerfed and can't kill an MBT with two bricks then there is no point in having C4 at all. I'm still waiting for your response on these quotes:
I don't know how to move my vehicle ? Well according to your infinite wisdom the only way one can move a tank is to place it at a place with no rocks, no towers, no bases, no structures, no mountains and no ridges cause an L.A may be lurking somewhere.....Well sorry but if that's the case SOE can remove MBTs in general since there is NO place like that. EVEN if there was however L.A jump from MBT's, Harrasers, ATVs, Sunderers and ESFs to do the EXACT same thing. So yea if you people can't see how wrong you are again it's not my fault. You are trying to defend something that WILL get nerfed eventually so deal with it. Nothing to answer........When there are 100 infantry on any map their job is to fight EACH other....My MAIN Job is to counter MBT's.....Of course i can hit infantry/ESfs and they can hit me too but that's not our MAIN objective......
Seems to me you have problems accepting the fact that people have more than one job. Seems you also have problems accepting that they may think their job in this game is something other than what you seem to think it is. Also, saying "C4 will get nerfed eventually..." can you predict the future? Damn dude, what are you doing playing a video game? Go out and make a billion dollars instead! Or perhaps you already did that? Why are you whining so hardcore then if you are "sure" this is going to happen in the future? Seems a bit... odd. Do us a favor, prove to us using hard data, that C4 is over-used against MBTs. Really, the challenge is there for you now, go find actual data showing that C4 poses an "OP threat" against vehicles, out of proportion to any other AV weapon and we'll listen. Go find us that data!
You make it sound like ALL LA are dedicated tank hunters. People don't log in, select "deploy as LA" and think to themselves "now I'm gonna farm meself some tanks". This is simply not the case. LA has to cert and equip C4, and then he has a CHANCE to C4 a bad driver, because even bad driver will kill LA if he spots him in time. As a player who mains infantry, when I see a tank, any tank, except skyguard, I think to myself "here's another jerk, if not cheap cheater, who got himself a tank to farm defenseless infantry". I don't know what YOUR objective is, but other tank drivers seem to be perfectly content by killing infantry whenever and wherever they can. So it's only natural that I would want to kill every motherloving tanker I see and then some. I am pretty sure that number of tanks I destroyed as LA is a lot less than number of me killed by tanks. Still no answer to l2p and C4 is worst AT weapon in the game? I think you lost this argument, better make a graceful retreat before you embarass yourself even further.
It's NOT a matter of whether or not it's OVER USED, it's a matter of whether or not it's OP and it IS, that's that. It currently deals 120% of damage on the Vanguard and IGNORES shield. No matter how you see it IT IS OP and that's why it will get nerfed. If you like making fun of people be my guest but when it does get nerfed i hope you will remember these paragraphs. Again 2 bricks do 120% of damage to the Vanguard AND ignore the shield. Find ANOTHER AT weapon that does that and inside 3s, ANY AT weapon. You will not so why are you even debating this ? Do you Really think i am the one who is embarassing himself right now ? Think again.
I do tend to write a fair bit because I want to show you respect that I have fully thought out my point of view. Taking the time to read what I wrote and actually think about it is in your best interest. Just read it. Obviously you must not understand basic human desire to be successful and the basic human tendency to use the most efficient and best thing to accomplish one's goals. By the very nature of people in a video game, people gravitate to that which is the most powerful. Oh sure, not everyone, but a huge majority of them. This is fact and has been seen thousands of times in the past. If that is true, why isn't C4 overused then? Why are there not more people ignoring rocket launchers and using C4 instead? Why do people bother spending money on items when C4 is free and acquired through certs? Stating that something is "OP" is purely speculation and opinion. I will say that C4 does more damage than other weapons, sure, but that doesn't necessarily make it overpowered. It seems to me you are having problems differentiating between "more powerful" and "over powered." This concept of being more powerful but not overpowered, is especially true in the fact that there are counters that have been put in the game, and referred to by the designers no less, to C4. Is rock OP towards scissors? Are scissors OP towards paper? Is paper OP towards rock? Have you ever stopped to consider that perhaps C4 is the developers way of giving an "out" to infantry against MBTs? Have you ever considered that perhaps they should have a method available to them, through extreme sacrifice on their part, to help balance the bigger picture? MBT > normal infantry, but perhaps C4 user > MBT but in a circular fashion like Rock>Paper>Scissors. Seriously, this is a prime example of GOOD game design, that fosters increased gameplay because people have to come up with new strategies to counter older strategies, thus they play the game longer, thus they spend more money. Making something like MBTs the hard counter to all situations, with no sure-fire way around them, is a dead end when it comes to game design. Dozens of C4 users have also given advice to those who feel threatened by it as well, which shows extreme empathy. What kind of empathy do the MBT pilots show towards C4 users? Almost nothing, I can't honestly think of anything that the biggest posters have done to show this empathy from MBT to C4. You, stating that "it will get nerfed" again I ask, do you have some sort of insight into the future? You have no way of knowing this. Saying something over and over doesn't necessarily make it true. If that was the case I would be repeating "MBT pilots will stop whining on the forums." Perhaps if I say it 100 times it'll come true? We both know that isn't the case, just like we both know that you saying "C4 will be nerfed" over and over won't necessarily make it true either. I know you wrote this for Iridar, but I really want to see a video showing PROOF that C4 ignores shield on a Vanguard. I have detonated C4 on shielded vanguards and done nothing to them. Plus if that IS the case, the problem isn't with C4 but instead with a buggy shield. Please get your priorities straight for when it comes to reporting bugs. Other people have issues with drop-podders using C4. Again, the problem isn't C4 with them, it is with the drop pod mechanic. Please find the root of your problem with C4 before you continue with your arguments. Plus I really would like to see a video showing that C4 ignores a Vanguard shield. Never seen that one before. Your idea that people can kill vehicles with this manner every 3 seconds also shows a bit of ignorance. Planting and detonating two bricks takes at least 5 seconds. This isn't including the run-up process. This isn't including the flanking that must be done. This isn't including any death screens that people have to sit at for 20 seconds on a failed attempt. You are talking only about the time that you "noticed that you died." You need to realize that the weapon isn't as instant as you put across, that those who use it don't contribute to the battle anywhere near as much while they are hunting you, and that you probably did something to upset them and got them to target you in the first place. I know there have been several MBTs that killed me 2 or 3 times, sitting nice and safe off in the distance. I've made it my mission, my goal, to hunt them down. Took a lot longer than "3 seconds." Also, how do you know for sure that it does 120% damage? Have you datamined the program to pull raw damage scores? Finally, like I said, the amount of damage that it does has nothing to do with "is it OP" or not. More powerful yes, all of us will give that to you, but that does not mean it is overpowered. Please remember that EVERYTHING is overpowered according to the definition of OP (to overcome or vanquish by superior force.) Oh my knife killed an enemy, it is OP compared to that enemy. Well suppose that's true cause the enemy is dead. You are using OP in a format to suggest that it is excessively OP. You've shared your opinions and the vast majority, from what I've noticed in several threads, seem to disagree with you. Sure you have some loud people on your side, but I have seen many more singular people say things like "learn to play" or "use radar" or other things to help back up that they don't think it is excessively OP. Like I said before, things that are excessively OP in video games are often abused by the vast majority of the players. "Anything to get a leg-up on your competition" sort of deal. The stats prove that C4 has lower kills per hour so it can't be said that it is being abused by the vast majority of players. The stats show that the overall percentage of vehicles killed by C4 is also pretty low so it can't be said it is being abused by the vast majority of players. Please show us some stats proving that it is being abused!
Two C4 bricks destroy a Vanguard, no matter if it has side/top/front armor cert and no matter if the shield is on. I have heard some people say that with the shield on two bricks dropped the health of their Vanguards to like 5% so yes it could be a bug with the shield (or it could be a bug with C4, same thing) but even so if two bricks of C4 can reduce the health of a Vanguard with the shield on at 5% (mine has ALWAYS exploded from C4 even with the shield on) still that is WAY TOO much. When did i say that it's abused and used by most people ? Again the issue is not the How many use it but its EFFECTIVENESS.
Yeah, only you forgot to add these points: within 3 seconds within 5m of a tank with one-shotting cannon and deadly turret on top of that possibly has proximity radar you get only one attempt until you die or resupply you pay 200 resources per attempt the tank has to be immobile for these 3 seconds Seems like a lot of downsides to justify high damage. If two bricks of C4 will not kill the tank, then there is no point in damaging tanks with it at all, may as well render them invulnerable to C4, because damaged tank will just retreat safely and repair.
If you can't take the time to show me a video of this dying while shield is active, you aren't going to be worth the time to reply to in these forums. I'm also waiting for statistical proof from you showing that it is "too effective." All you are giving is your opinion over and over, without considering the bigger picture. How does something that is "too effective" not get abused in a game the size and scope of PS2? Have you stopped to consider that games, for generations, have had "touch attacks" that were much more powerful than standard attacks and that this is merely an incarnation of the same thing? Have you stopped to consider the grief of several tries, the wasted time even on a perfect first try, that someone experiences when using C4? How many kills do YOU have using it? Enlighten us all as to your experiences using it first hand, so we know how you know it is "too effective." Have you experienced what it would be like using C4 and never getting a direct vehicle kill off of it? That's what you are asking us to experience. Have you experienced what Light Assault would be like if they didn't have their AV capabilities? They would be BROKEN, the worst class and least played class. Don't ask that of us, it isn't right. Show some empathy.
Like many have told me in other threads we should be looking at the equipment most people use and when it comes to the Vanguard 9 out of 10 use the SHIELD......So no proximity Radar..... Lets check the cost.... 2 C4 bricks x 200 resources : 400r Vanguard : 405-450r Time needed for Infantry to respawn : 5-15s Time needed to get another Vanguard : MINUTES As for the tank needing to be immobile COME ON we are ALL playing the same game. In large battles most MBTs are IMMOBILE. Even if not we see C4 getting dropped from drop pods, ESFs and Vehicles so it matters little for daredevils. @ Rogue Comet It's not hard nor does it take That much time for you to get into the VR zone and test it out........
EXACTLY! Those of us who use C4 on Sunderers can tell you, we get absolutely no experience when we toss our bricks down first. The vehicle may be destroyed sometimes by others, but we get no experience. When someone else blows up our bricks we get NOTHING except lost resources. When they retreat and repair the damage to full, we also get nothing. If they aren't destroyed, they will ALWAYS retreat and repair. The only reason Sunderers don't is that they are deployed and stationary. MBTs are far more mobile than Sunderers in that aspect. That's what they are asking us to have happen.
