Remove the 3rd passenger being able to repair Harasser!

When going full speed it is hard as hell to repair a harrasser from the 3rd seat.

I believe the reasoning behind its defensive strength though is that it requires multiple people to use. It is frustrating when people say "it takes more hits than a lightning!" When a lightning is a fast potent one manned vehicle. While a harasser is useless without a second person.

If it makes you feel better a pebble can still flip and own a harasser.

A month ago I would have disagreed with this thread, but the Harasser either needs
half the Armour it currently has or it's Speed reduced or the ability to repair it from
the 3rd seat removed. It needs to lose one of those three major perks to be brought
inline with the game in general.

And I loooooove my Harasser and I have it fully tricked out after sinking thousands of
certs into it, but overall it's just too powerful in it's current state. It doesn't need a huge
nerf in any way, but it needs it's wings clipped a bit. I landed 2 Phalanx turret shots on
one yesterday, it took another shot from a Magrider (no clue what loadout), and a ton
of small arms fire and it still managed to boost off smoking, simply to return later and
make similar runs.

Personally i'd remove it's ability to be healed from the 3rd seat and then see how that
works out. I know it only has around 6500 armour with full composite armour certed,
and the Lightning gets around 8300 or so, so that seems appropriate. It's speed is the
difference between a dead Harasser and a live one, so I wouldn't touch that either.

Sadly SOE tends to hamhand these sorts of things so everybody spends SC/Certs
on the next Flavor of the Month (FotM), but hopefully they do it right this time. LOL

Yeah because nobody certs into more durability, right? Not only that, but being able to dodge fire by driving at full speed AND have a repair tool healing you means it has more survivability. It's like non-stop Nano Repair, but better.

Just so everyone understands me. I'm not saying that the default harasser is inherently OP. What makes it OP is a combination of weapons available, its speed, lack of directional weakness, and composite armor giving it as much damage mitigation as a lighting on all sides.

There really can be no question that currently the composite armor upgrade for the harasser is OP. After that, the rest may or may not be fine.

Explain to me why a vehicle capable of moving 100 KPH should not be punished if it sits still long enough for me to drop two bricks of C4 on it.

Thank ****, finally someone who gets it. Don't base complains/nerfs etc. on faulty arguments. I have seen way too many discussions on these forums based on faulty, exaggerated, misleading, or blatantly wrong facts. Its does nothing to validate a point of view. In fact it simply weakens any kind of view put forward.


That aside, there a few things you actually left out. Yes the lightning does have a bigger health pool, but the problem comes from the armor value distribution and what can be certed into. For example a stock Harasser has a resist value of 37% on all sides. While the lightning has 65% front, 58% side and top, and 0% rear. This means that the Lightening can be taken out a lot quicker if shot in the rear (the weakness of all tanks). The real problem comes in that a Harasser can upgrade the armor on all axis at the same time. With max composite armor the Harasser has a resist value of 61% on all sides. Meaning that a Harasser can take way more damage in the rear and almost as much on the sides and top as a Lightening.

Now add in the weapon damage multiplier and you will see why people think the Harasser can take a lot more damage. The Lightning has a 2x for C4, 1.25x for AP, 2.67x for AV, and 2x for the Lancer. While the Harasser has 1x for AP, AV, Lancer and 0.9x for C4.

So for example a certed Harasser can take 5 AP shots from a Lightening on all sides. While a Lightning can take 5 shots to the front, 4 to the sides and top, and 2 to the rear.

Not that I am advocating either viewpoint in this discussion, just making sure that it is discussed based on the facts.

It doesn't have a 360 degree view at present, it is 180 degrees at present.

Yes, as a dumbfire-wielding HA, this is especially aggravating. There is no reason that the Harrasser should be able to forego this disadvantage and turn their back to me and still be protected. Their increased speed is already enough for me to miss more often, or only getting glancing or splash damage, while they can do circles around me better than a flash and OHK me with ease.

SOE clearly created this overppowered, and to troll us yet again with it.

Woah, my post really stirred up a torrent of replies! Didn't see that coming, generally I get 1 or maybe 2...

I agree, hardly a big deal but its true. My squad have brought down a couple of harassers by pounding them with concentrated small arms fire, but any skilled driver will be able to avoid it! For the rest of your reply, most of the problems people mention with the harasser are founded in the composite armor upgrade. Because the harasser has equal armor all around, it ends up with armor as strong as a default lightning but with NO weakspots. Not good! I too see the need for some changes in this case, like my proposed "remove composite upgrade and give them armor upgrades similar to the tanks alternatives".

Of course, my numbers are based on a stock harasser. This problem once again stems from most harassers running the composite armor upgrade. I really think this is the biggest, baddest wolf at the moment. They may end up leaving the composite armor as it is and reducing the vehicles base stats instead, but I really hope they don't as that would just put new and non-paying players at a further disadvantage. We don't need that!

I can see we're on the same page as far as the composite armor is concerned, and also when it comes to the passanger in the back being able to repair on the move. Both of those needs to go for balance, however I do not agree with a general armor and HP downgrade for the time being. I said in another harasser thread that I am afraid they do what they tend to with these things, and nerf it too much too soon. I think removing the composite armor and the ability for the passanger to make repairs while in the vehicle would be all the changes we need, as it would lock the harasser to an armor level significantly lower than the Lightning and the MBTs.

And I completely agree with you on both those points, I believe I have stated as much in my former posts. If THAT is what you have an issue with though, the repairing from the 3rd seat and the composite armor, then THAT is what you need to speak out against! The problem comes in when people simply start a tread by going "harassers are as resiliant as tanks and hit just as hard while going super fast!", because that comes off as pointless zimfing about the latest thing that killed you. It's the same stuff we see about C4 and scatmaxes all the time. If people would be more accurate in their claims, and consider their posts a bit more carefully, we the gamers would get so many more voices and opinions heard. Must be hell for a developer to even begin to filter out the serious and validated opinons from all the nonsense every game forum sees.

I couldn't agree more, and always welcome with open arms and more than mild surprise cultured responses such as this one:

You are of course completely right. Although I was aware of these issues, I didn't focus on them when calling out the initial errors of the OP. Considering the responses I have gotten to my posts in this thread, I definently should have! No one to blame but myself... You, and the others, are of course completely right. It must have been a seperate post or thread, but my suggestion would be to remove the composite armor from the harasser altogether, substituting it with the same style of armor upgrade available to the Lightning and the MBTs. Armor plating that upgrade the front, side or rear of the tank! This would suitably limit the defensive capabilities of the harasser while still allowing for some choice. It would also likely lead to more interesting driving and harasser tactics, as drivers try to keep their most defendable side towards the enemy (just like we see with tanks currently). What I am oposing is the reduction of the Harassers base HP and armor, at least in the first go... I want them to nerf this vehicle slowly and with consideration, we don't need any more situations where something goes from being considred OP to completely unusable because of some badly thought trough whining!

Thank you all for your responses, I hope I have answered them reasonably well! Should you want to go deeper into the subject, I'm more than happy to. Debating is one of my favorite pasttimes! And as always, should you have some information that I have missed, or an opinion that may enlightnen me, I'm very much interested...

There's no reason to change one of the most fun parts about the Harasser to make it more vulnerable. Just reduce the amount of hit points it has, it's got far too much for a fast vehicle that can be fixed on the move.

I have no idea how can anyone defend this stupid ability. This makes the harasser better than MBTs and lightnings.
The only reason Sony hasnt fixed this is that they are making a ton of money off of harasser weapons. This is why they dragged their feet in nerfing ZOE.

Composite armor for the harasser is OP
Repairing in the third seat is a cool mechanics, bit it is OP. (should make it repairs at 1/4th the speed or something)

I got headshotted in the back seat by a dalton and the harasser lived. May not be relevant but it was fracking awesome.

Not from the devs, as far as I'm aware. It's just something a handful of people in the community want.

I've killed a few people in the rumble seat of a Harasser while in my Lightning. I even managed it with an AP round once. It's pure luck.

And no, I didn't finish off that Harasser with my AP Lightning; they're way too fast. I'm sure he just picked his buddy up at their base next door, repaired, and returned.

Harassers are like ESFs in that most things only deter them. You dump a couple shells into them and they bug out to scrape off the XP you've deposited onto the frame (repair the damage you did) then return for more, while you get nothing.

What some people don't seem to realize is that the rumble passenger cannot begin repairs if the Harasser is moving more than about 10 kph. Once the repair beam latches onto the vehicle, it will stay there until the rumble passenger stops repairing or the repair tool overheats. A high-level repair tool can repair a Harasser to full or nearly full. If you want a sensible repair tool change, make the repair beam stop latching onto the vehicle at high speeds, like it used to do before one of the game updates (the one that made it act like the medic tool, but for MAXes).

As for what you can do right now, if you see a smoking Harasser you should plan on it needing to slow down before it can repair. That is when you should strike.

Don't you understand? Its a bug that SOE and their community college dev team could not fix, hence why its "working as intended".

Duh.

Except not, because when ESFs get greedy you can punish them with an unexpected decimator or AP round to the face, and they die. When a harasser gets greedy, he takes a decimator from you, an AP round from your buddy, then drives off at 100kph without even being on fire.

Multiple players is actually an advantage also.

Why?

Because in a Lighting, you have to split your attention to two tasks at once: driving and shooting.

In a Harasser, the driver drives, and the gunner guns without having to worry about anything else. Two brains are better than one. Each player is focused on a singular task.

The ability to repair on the fly while outmaneuvering and outrunning everything else, coupled with its absurdly high armor rating, and non-directional armor make it quite imbalanced.

The thing is a glorified dune buggy - having 83% as much health as a Lightning is just too much.

I was also in a scrap with one that had an AV Max in the back once...that was ugly. So much DPS from something so fast and durable at the same time. Ive had easier times going toe to toe with a Magrider in my AP Lightning than fighting that.



The fix:

At very least a greatly reduced repair rate while the vehicle is in motion. Possibly remove it altogether - though i think with a HP reduction and nerf to repair speed it would bring it close to reasonable.

Reduced HP to 2000; possibly 1800. 1800 may be too low, but coupled with repair on the fly, its not as low as it sounds.

Possibly reduce the vehicle's top speed when it catches fire. (if it doesnt work like that already) The Harasser has less chance of speeding off around a rock outcropping and disappearing as it repairs while it flees, only to return seconds later and catch the Tank driver still trying to repair.

I might get flamed for the last one, as that commonly occurs when you want to bring people's OP toys in line. The things simply have too much DPS, Armor, Speed and agility. You just cant have everything. Typically when you have that sort of handling you sacrifice armor and durability.

I'm pretty amazed how people who 1 man tanks, and people who as a HA want to own a veichle with dumbfires tirelessly create threads/posts about the things they dont like instead of realizing how skewed their viewpoint is.

1. There is a reason the buggy is called "Harasser" the name says everything that should give a clue.

2. 1-2 shots will make the harasser retreat, thats when it should be chased and finished off.

3. If you're a 1/2 MBT dont expect to win against a dedicated driver and a dedicated gunner, a 2/2 MBT will own a harasser even with the dumpy basilisk.

4. If you as a tank stray from your allies and wander off expect to be hunted, travel in packs as smart people do and you wont be harassed.

The Harasser is the only vehicle in the game that is incredibly fun to both drive and gun. I wouldn't change a thing. Some clarification might be nice though. If SOE favors Harassers repairing on the move, then SOE should fix the bugged mechanic so it is easier to repair. I have a feeling those complaining about Harassers are the abundance of 1/2 tankers out there.