GU011: Weapon and Vehicle Changes

Because, every time I enter someone's vehicle... I get kicked out of it because the owner's a *********. I spawn a vehicle, I don't kick people out of my vehicle... Because I'm not a *********.

Less of this is good.

You know it!

not true. if you were the underdog faction before, enjoy your perma warpgate status, because a faction that's capped most of the continent will make that back for a joke, while you'll be sitting there grinding your teeth, waiting for enough resources to put up at least somewhat of a counter offensive.

I think that's because people are getting their fun out of vehicles before crazy time inflation, sadly.

everything but the resource cost is okay. If you dont want us pulling vehicles or maxes just remove them from the game We can make this COD on big maps. Thats what it will come to sooner or later at this rate.

The problem here is they have also gotten the repair speed/HP dynamic out of balance. Currently engineers are waaaaaaaaaaay too fast at repairing vehicles. If you doubled tank HP tomorrow you would make it completely impossible to kill a repped tank.You need to work out where along the line you sit with being able to wear a tank down vs alpha spiking it.

In order to have a good Resource/survivability dynamic then SOE need to think about all the points involved.

As much resources for the Harasser and Lightning as for the Sunderer ??? Holy macaroni, WTF ???

Do you guys realize that we have a whole Certification bar that costs us a **** load of Certs and time, so we can actually take a new one if something goes wrong short after the first spawn ???
So basically using your Certs in the timer shortage is now obsolete, as you won't have the resources to buy the thing you want.

This would be OK, if every server had an even population, so every faction could at least have enough territories to have a decent resources income.Or if the resources income would be determined by ALL THE TERRITORIES YOU OWN ON ALL CONTINENTS.
But now low population factions are just going to be ******.
You'd tell yourself, that they'd have more chance, because the ennemy is also limited. Except the ennemy owns the territories and gets the advantage of position and resources.

Oh yeah but you get resources when you fight I forgot. Except, when the enemy tanks are hiding behind shields and being constantly repaired as soon as they loose 5% of armor, you just make useless damages and have to hope to get resources back, except by changing your target on infantries and NOT taking care of the danger you're here for.

Please give me the name of some Auraxys God to pray for....

This is what's going to happen to them : Almost being warp-gated -> Buy heavy vehicles to push back the 300 roaring mofos at their door -> Loose half or more of their vehicles -> "OK, should I wait hours to spawn a Lightning, that's going to be blown by a few rockets" -> "IamBeingTrolledByTheDevs" disconnected.

As for the Maxes, some modifications on the Timer bar, would have been way enough. Same **** here for low population factions.
Any experienced player with some unlocked infantry stuff already spends a lot of resources in buying his stuff back.
Sometimes having 100 of resources, where you need them the most can already be a pain.AND I'M ALPHA SQUAD !!! (+ 50% resources). I just regretted my 500 Certs investment of yesterday in my extended magazine...

Sure it's more logical or realistic, that people with less territories have less resources. But on the gameplay side, it just kills the will of players to fight back.
What is it going to be when we'll be able to eject a faction from a continent. You'd think it would be an epic fight. If this patch note stands it's gonna be almost as smooth as ghost-capping.

It's just disappointing, that the only ways that have been found to compensate a small problem, are a statistic based solution or to listen to so-called strategical and organizational freaks, that in the end spend 5 hours per week in the game and 10 hours a week complaining about it on the forums (ok I'm exaggerating ).
I never really complained about your work SOE, but lately all the nerfing and buffing and chapalapaladudelydadaboom of making backs and forwards in your patches, has been causing old bugs or inequalities to show up again, as they should have been solved a long time ago.

Shortly said : GET TO KNOW YOUR OWN GAME and TO THINK OF MORE ADAPTED LONG TERM SOLUTIONS, INSTEAD OF DISTRIBUTING BUFFS OR CUTTING THE BALLS OFF OF REAL PLAYERS every 2 ******* weeks....

Maybe I understood something wrong here or you're not explaining every change in your note, as you did not many times. In this case : I'm half of a sorry. Or not.

Let's be honest here. Even if SOE would increase all costs to 750, it wouldn't really change anything. Yes, we would see less vehicles in the game, but so what? They don't mean anything in this version of "Planetside" anyway.

I remember how vehicle haters in PS1 talked about the game turning into Vehicleside and I suppose this is the opposite of that. We don't really need vehicles in this game. We have spawns every 500 meters in a form of the outposts. The only time I grab a vehicle is when I see the team needing a Sunderer for spawns. Other than that, they are useless.

I know PS1 players hate this change, but this is where SOE wants to go. Maybe they should rename the game, because soon it has nothing to do with Planetside anymore.

This change seems unnecessary to me and I fail to see the logic behind it. I mean the planes in PS2 are so nimble that hitting them long range is already really difficult. Why would you cripple AA Max from doing the only thing it is designed to do? The targets they shoot are farming everything (planes, tanks, infantry), but this specialised AA Max unit can't now hit the targets it is meant to hit. What in earth are you thinking?

good bye shotguns... looks like i wont be needing you any more

higby said, that the "warpgated" faction will become more resources. to be able to fight back.

[copy and paste]


PS2 Creative Director las0m


First of all, as usual we appreciate all the discussion on this, seeing a lot of valid concerns. I wanted to address a couple of them.


1 - We've run the numbers too, of course. We're looking at average resource income and spend rates across multiple roles, i.e. people who play tanks primarily, those who play air primarily, those who play lots of stuff, etc. We've found that in general the resource income is about 3-4x the resource spend rate for most players, with a few exceptions. Not only that, but most of the time most players are CAPPED on aerospace and mechanized resources, including those who play those roles primarily. This is leading to resources being largely irrelevant. The only one that this isn't the case with is infantry resources, where you can spend without using, so more people manage to use those resources effectively without "wasting" their by earning while capped.


2 - The purpose with resources is to be limit the flow of force-multipliers being used, vehicles, explosives, etc. If you're upset that you can't chain pull tanks over and over every 5 minutes, I don't know what to tell ya. That's kind of the entire purpose of the resource system to limit players from doing that. It's never been the intention that tanks and aircraft are always available and you never have to "do without", however, our current tuning basically allows for that - making resources, and therefore one of our strategic drivers largely irrelevant. Did you know you actively earn resources by fighting in certain areas, in addition to the passive gain? Most people don't since resources don't really matter. If you want to get tanks faster, you can do that by fighting more in mechanized resource hexes. Mechanized resources are usually more plentiful outside of warpgates too so sunderers and MBTs, the backbones of forming a push are earned earliest. None of this matters or is important in the current meta - hopefully this tuning starts to make that gameplay surface a bit more.


3 - I know you're not saying this Roy, but just so everyone else sees it - this isn't a "Resource System Revamp" it's just a tuning pass. We still have longer term plans for more systematic adjustments to the resource game, including changes to the way you acquire and utilize resources. This tuning is an attempt to see what we can do to make resources more relevant in the current system without waiting several weeks for the new game systems to be coded and tuned. We also want to see what a more restrictive resource model feels like so we can refine the design direction for that larger change. These type of resource adjustments are fast and tiny changes to game data and are easy for us to adjust and even remove if it proves to be as bad as the doomsayers think it might be.


4 - Currently resources and XP are boosted by being under-populated. Of course hardly anyone realizes that resources are boosted since they don't matter very much right now, but they are. We are considering greatly increasing the resource side of that bonus, meaning that under-populated empires will have a lot more availability to spawn vehicles. I'm sure the first thought is "if we're zerged back to the wg we're screwed anyways so this doesn't help", and that's true and is already the case. Yes, if they're pushed back all the way to WG, this won't be as huge of a benefit, but if you're under-pop while you're being pushed back it could matter a lot. Being able to out-pull vehicles, MAXes and consumables while you're fighting to hold territory as an under-popped empire could hopefully prove to be an alleviation of the population imbalance pain that some players are feeling on a couple servers. edit: since I know someone will show up to bring up that if you're evenly popped and pushed back to WG you'd be hurting - that's true, but that's kind of the point. This is the component I'm personally least comfortable with.

Once again, the goals with this tuning is to make resources more relevant, decrease the time that players spend 'capped' on vehicle resources, limit chain pulling powerful force-multiplier vehicles such as MBTs, and, ideally, to allow under-popped empires to leverage force multipliers at a higher rate than their over-populated rivals while actively contesting territory.

At any rate, I'll take the concerns to the team, and we'll continue to discuss. I agree there are some big issues to watch carefully with this type of change.

The good news is it's a very simple change to implement, iterate and even to revert if needed. Like so much in Planetside 2, "TheorySiding" and mathematical models only get us so far (both ours and yours), it's really impossible to accurately predict the actual results until we can see it played by real players in real situations.

and yet another nerf to NC Max,well what could i expect from tr/vs who fail to understand that you need to be 10 mts away from NC Max as easy as that,seriously how hard is to keep your distance???

I'm ok with the rise of the price of all vehicules (for flash less) but add 10 more minutes before they disappear and return the deconstruct button with refont of resource point, just add the same mechanism as redeploy : 10s before deconstruct and cancel it vehicule receives damage (and exit passengers). Also don't lock use on the vehicule window when deconstructing and add a timer on the vehicule icon.

The problem isn't deconstruction timers, it's how weak tanks are to infantry. Three infantry focus-firing at a tank, even a 2/2 tank, will guarantee the tank's death in most cases. That shouldn't be the case for something that costs 450 resources.

Sounds like a good set of changes, however I'm surprised that the Flash has gone up to 150. It's already less useful than it ever has been, and this will make it pretty much useless. 75-100 would be about right, but 150 is excessive.

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...tanks-even-get-some-love.134455/#post-1863591

Ok,soe since it looks like you're hell bent in making this into CoD with big maps I suggest buffing all vehicles. It only make sense honestly if vehicles really are going to cost a lot more resources then they should be more powerful than they currently are to compensate. Currently they're to easy to take out.

True but to take a base you need an infantry push not a tank push

For your infantry push to survive and get there in one piece you need a corresponding tank push, although that's increasingly not true as tanks are made increasingly irrelevant.

Bad idea. Vehicles will become a premium/boost thing only. Vehicles are too fragile for the resource cost you want them to have (Prowlers and Magriders have had their toughness buffed twice and the Vanguard thrice but they're still fragile disposable garbage). Increase a vehicle's resource cost without increasing its survivability and/or utility and you make the vehicle worthless.

But more than anything, I don't see how you can say that you don't want vehicle-specialized players to be able to have access to their chosen playstyle at all times. Higby, do you even remember PlanetSide? I know that SOE has thrown out almost everything that made the first game great (and superior), but I always had access to my MBT if I had the appropriate links or went back to sanctuary. I never had to footslogged because I didn't want to. I lived in my Magrider. I will not footslog in a hex for resources just so I can spawn the vehicle in which I have invested the majority of my cert points. I will not go to a hex that generates the resources I need to spawn my tank when my tank is needed in a hex that doesn't generate the resources I need to spawn my tank. Instead, I will be AFKing in a warpgate and soaking up resources, occasionally moving about so I can get the resource tick.

This is one of many changes that makes me wonder if you even played PS1, Higby. How can you create a sequel that's so inferior to its predecessor? It boggles the mind.