Your inability to fix a lag problem caused you to nerf a VS asset, this is how we start.

I never said that, I said packet loss and lag = ADADADA God mode, the ZOE nerf was not necessary on the ground.

If a player is moving intelligently (rapid lateral movement), and that player is experiencing lag and packet loss, then I agree that the lagging player becomes insanely difficult to kill.

Just make sure you point out that this means the player is exploiting lag and packet loss, not ADAD.

As for the ZOE, the entirety of the ability should be considered as a whole. If you take the logical observation that ZOE is overpowered (which it is), then there are numerous ways to balance it. One of them would be to nerf the movement speed slightly (which they are trying on the test server).

Are you suggesting that nerfing their movement speed was the wrong nerf, and that they should take a different approach? Or are you suggesting that the ZOE as a whole is not overpowered?

But it's not an exploit, I only showed you an exploit but in reality when the fight gets too big and people crowd a point, the server takes a dump enabling it and that is the entire reasoning for nerfing the ZOE max.

Try to 1v1 a ZOE against anyone, if it comes from an open space, TR will kill it with even bigger damage if using the correct guns, if it's CQ, the NC max with a shield and hacksaw will beat it.

What is the problem? the ZOE can run away and wait for self healing specs to kick in, something irrelevant to the way this game is now played with the lattice in, you will never see small fights anymore and by small I mean 4 people.

The ZOE did not need a nerf on movement speed or a nerf on damage, it needed a nerf on AA because it was overpowered along with TR and aircraft had it impossible already.

When a ZOE max beats a lockdown TR max at range or an NC max at CQ you can then SAY it is overpowered.

Yep, lets also nerf Phoenix damage as it has no counter (or SOE could just fix the core issue of missiles not rendering on the correct trajectory or at all) and lets nerf the striker damage as it clips through terrain sometimes (but not bother to fix the core issue of missiles clipping through terrain).

Yay, everybody wins.

The striker does not clip through terrain, it just makes sharp turns as soon as it reaches the target at a distance, that is happening with all lock ons.

As an example, I shoot diagonally upwards and you are over a mountain, as soon as the missile "understands" you are on the same axis, it makes a 90 degree turn downwards or left or right, that is what is happening.

I could address your other points individually, but this assumption here is why we're disagreeing.

Max vs Max battles are largely irrelevant. The power of the VS max vs the power of the TR max vs the power of the NC max is largely irrelevant in terms of game balance.

What is important is how powerful each max is against infantry.

I realize that most everyone on these forums will disagree with that notion, but I feel pretty strongly about it and I think I have the experience to back it up.


So why does Max vs Max not matter in terms of balance?

Because Max vs Max situations are always organic, complex, and dynamic situations. You never see one max run into another max, without other **** going on. Its always 1 max + 3 other enemies vs 1 or 2 maxes vs several other infantry.

The outcome of that fight is not in any way entirely dependent on the factors that govern pure max vs max fighting. In other words, just because a lockdown max would beat a VS max in a pure, clean, 1v1, it does not mean that the TR max is even close to being as powerful as the VS max.


So why does Max vs Infantry matter in terms of balance?

Because max vs infantry is what actually happens in Planetside 2. Say you had 1 TR max + 3 infantry, vs 1 ZOE VS max + 3 infantry. What would happen? The entire fight would be decided by how quickly the max suits could kill the infantry.

Furthermore, 1v1 Max vs Infantry fights happen all the time. A skilled Heavy Assault user, with nothing but a rocket launcher and a primary weapon, can solo a Scattermax or a TR max. However this is vastly more difficult to do against ZOE maxes.

The fact of the matter is that ZOE maxes just slaughter infantry, and their movement allows them to be even more durable than without ZOE. A good player in a ZOE max can just go anywhere he pleases and just slaughter people, so long as possesses presence of mind not to over extend.

Let me put this one final way: If there were a competition in this game to see who could get the highest score per minute in the world, across any patch version, I would choose this patch and a ZOE max in order to win. I would choose this over a magrider at their most powerful, over the Prowler pre-nerf, over a liberator when AA was weak, over pre-nerf TR mercy max, over pre-nerf NC hacksaw max.

Since when are we balancing this game towards group gameplay? look at AA damage for Pete's sake, look at the tools given against air or vehicles, this is what I tell you as a piece of what is actually being done, satiating the need of the single player, so what does SOE do? pick when it's good to be 1v1 balanced and when it's good to be group balanced? that is hand picking that will never work anywhere.

I am guiding myself by beta, when NC maxes were overdone compared to the rest in damage, they got nerfed, the TR took over, soon after they buffed NC again and this was all from watching 1v1 videos of both shooting each other at the same time.

IF they know 1v1 does not work as a form of balance in this game, why make so much balance be based on it? this change goes against the very foundation of their philosophy, it is stupidity beyond any seen before, no, not stupidity, it is BIAS excused by whining.

Infantry compose 80% of this game or a bit less, it is irrelevant to do anything more for them, there are plenty of games in the market catering to those needs, if they do not want vehicles in this game, please tell them to get rid of vehicles! it is that simple, if they do not like vehicles because of the headaches they bring, get rid of them!

Stop
Tricking
People
Into
Imaginary
Concepts.

You do not have combined arms gameplay in this game, just the bias they set every time they decide to come up with a bright idea, it is beyond the word "Wow" at this point.

In case you still do not understand what I said, do you see SC balanced the same way DOTA is balanced? no because one is 1v1 and the other is group.

Anything else does not work, WoW, is the best example in existence.

I honestly haven't the slightest idea what you are trying to say here, so I'll simply reply with this simple bit of logic:

ZOE maxes, by any measure, are considerably more powerful than pre-nerf TR mercy maxes.

If they nerfed TR mercy maxes because they thought they were too powerful, then it follows that ZOE maxes should be nerfed too. You could try to argue that the addition of the new abilities was designed to make maxes more powerful overall, but then you'd have to deal with the dependencies between the power of each faction's MAX vs what it used to be.

It's rather simple.

They were nerfed because 1v1 are okay and in group are overdone, what is the state of AA and what is the state of AV? horrible, right?

That is all I am trying to tell you, they hand pick what would work 1v1 or in group, ****** balance.

I honestly haven't the slightest idea what you are trying to say here, but I'll simply reply with this simple bit of logic:

ZOE maxes, by any measure, and considerably more powerful than pre-nerf TR mercy maxes.

If they nerfed TR mercy maxes because they thought they were too powerful, then it follows that ZOE maxes should be nerfed too. You could try to argue that the addition of the new abilities was designed to make maxes more powerful overall, but them you'd have to deal with the dependencies between the power of each faction's MAX vs what it used to be.

N/m the server is taking a dump.

I think a huge contributing factor to the speed reduction is also that the "situational" part of all MAX abilities was not all too situation for the ZOE. The added movement speed means you are able to really dodge out of most explosive projectiles like rockets or tank rounds just as any other infantry man can. So the only real thing to worry about is small arms fire, kinetic armor has you covered.


~Drawback of faction specific MAX abilities
Lockdown needs preparation because of its animation time. You also can not turn any more than 90 degrees left or right. When used the user is essentially an in placed turret, susceptible to any damage fired upon it as it has to unroot (animation) to then proceed to safety.

Aegis can be equipped when ever needed. However can be depleted and needs time to recharge afterwords. It leaves you vulnerable as you can not fire, and only protects the user from one direction of fire. Still susceptible to splash damage from explosions or direct fire that may not be directly in front. Lob a shell/reket/grenade behind it and the shield does nothing.

ZOE can be equipped when ever needed. No depletion, recharge time, or animation to go through. Makes you vulnerable to fire, however can be turned off to instantly negate that downside however the user becomes faster and does more damage.
~


The ZOE only has that one drawback, the added damage taken. Though if you are getting shot at, you should probably get out of that situation. Which of course the ZOE can do phenomenally well because they are as fast and quick as regular infantry but still have a higher health pool and access to damage reduction armor types. So it really begs the question is that really a drawback that causes its use to be limited?

The ZOE is just a no brainer and a complete upgrade to the charge ability. Its sheer versatility of added speed and damage that id gives the user coupled with its instant toggle pairs up to something that is just so powerful when used which is why many in this community see it as being OP. Its drawback to gains it receives just do not add up to something that is situational.

So a slight nerf to horizontal speed is not a huge nerf as some would like to, horrible exagerate, it to be. It brings the ZOEs drawback to actually be a drawback because it isnt negated almost by increased movement speed.

Let's not even bother with that, let's give everyone, everyone's abilities to help balance because the devs cannot keep up with it anymore, I mean they have failed for a good 5 months already but they need to start thinking about the fact they failed.

You do not bring community college grads to balance a game not even the best of one of the best companies could balance.

Also: I'm sure it'll still work just fine, you just can't be ninja MAX anymore. Just a MAX, which is already better than your standard infantry, that also comes with a damage buff whenever it wants.

First of all I think that the test server just gave ZOE momentum, so you can't side strafe as effectively as infantry.
I'd be fine with ZOE if SOE gave the TR something worth using 95% of the time when you're fighting infantry and not 5% of the time when you're using dual bursters.

To those who say ZOE isn't OP then consider the underused competition: Lockdown.
Lockdown sacrifices all of it's mobility plus a 2 second anchoring and 2 second de-anchoring procedure for a measly 35% increased fire rate against already squishy targets, a faster reload, and we can cert into higher levels for increased bullet velocity! Oh yeah don't forget that our FOV is also reduced to 180 degrees.

Meanwhile ZOE:
Sacrificed some armor for a maneuverability and weapon damage buff. Plus you can cert into higher levels to reduce ZOE's only weakness.

Do you see why ZOE is so obviously better? TR get a DPS buff and in exchange we lose all of our mobility. The VS get a DPS and speed buff in exchange for an armor debuff...which they can use certs to reduce!

So really Lockdown needs to be made less situational. Oh yeah and making lockdown not apply to bursters would pretty much eliminate half the uses I have for it. So I guess I'll be waiting for overdrive.

This. The only thing they've done to ZOE is give it slightly slower acceleration. Apart from that, movement speed is exactly the same.

Not needed.

Yes, it was.

All MAXes primary weakness is their lack of mobility - the ZOE getting that weakness completely negated on top of a damage buff was completely out of line. The ZOE will still be the most mobile MAX in the game by a long shot - it just won't be as ridiculously overpowered as it is now.