The Striker is ruining air game

Discussion in 'Heavy Assault' started by Tar, May 10, 2013.

  1. Algernon

  2. xXSmokeXx

    ESFs have no business as main ground attack flyers. I always see way more ESFs attacking ground than I see them actually dogfighting enemy flyers. And why wouldn't they, when they're so much more effective at it than liberators?

    That is the no.1 reason AA is so powerful. Tone down the A2G (air to ground) effectiveness of ESFs and then you can start toning down AA.
  3. khai


    The problem with demanding instance by instance balance is that you must end up with either identical or uninteresting factions. The same argument can be made for the faction AI maxes the mercy is better at medium range then the scattercannon does that make the TR OP compared to the NC, no because the Scattercannon is better at short range so it more or less washes out in the end. This means the game can appeal to a wider range of play styles not just superficial unimportant backstories, allowing those who like etreme RoF to take TR, those who like heavy hits and shotguns to take NC and those who like dressing in spandex and firing lasers to take VS.

    The reason noone mentions VS for a couple of reasons. They are the smallest faction and it is always harder to beat up on the little guy. The phoenix is an easier comparison with its own history of idiots calling for nerfs. and because though it is probably the best of the ESRL no one not using it has any idea what to make of the Lancer.

    Okay best stats available for weapon performance is here. And I am surprised to see that noone has posted it yet on this thread.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdFhHUzJfN1VYalRnWS0xMnBUdTJpM1E&gid=25

    As we can see of the three launchers the striker is the most used but is dead last at everything except deaths per hour and hit ratio. This is because even with a 64% hit rate the other 2 are a dumbfire laser and a wire guided weapon. and because the lancer is most effective up close and the phoenix has you a blind sitting duck until the missile bullet cam ends. It is sad that they do not have a esf specific category but they do not.

    I will agree there needs to be more terrain in certain areas but let me turn the second part of the comment around why should ESFs have a barage weapon equally effective against basically any target, that is not only effective against infantry but an almost guaranteed one volley against rear vehicle armor? What makes ESFs special, where is my Katyusha mount for the harasser? The reason ground players bring up rocketpods is that a clean hit with one will kill all ground units but nothing on the ground will kill air or even other ground units with a single clean hit. Currently the balance of rocket pods are about right their over poweredness compensated for by a combination of skill required, lack of cover in the air, and prevalence of AA means most of us can live with them.
  4. [HH]Mered4

    Its interesting, that.
    Ive seen it happen a few times, but here is what happens (SOE must have changed this recently):
    WHen a ground target with tone and lock slides behind cover, the striker missiles first go UP at a 60 degree angle for about 5-6m and then hone in on the target.....sort of the way the Javelin does in BF3 in certain situations.

    It only does it when the vehicle is driving behind a hill or some other obstacle. If the obstacle is large enough (ie, Indar's spike towers) the rockets hit the terrain.
  5. Tar

    Could it be that it's because you're looking from the ground, whereas they're fighting in the air, outside your view range? and/or because if they were actually fighting in your view range, you'd immediately whip out your striker and start shooting?

    Also how does this address the balance being shifted in favor of TR?
  6. Satanam

    Well, to be honest I think the Striker received a buff, or a bug, because in most situations that I couldn't hit people I am now able to do it. Someone said before that it's not hitting the ground, so probably that's why. Anyway, it doesn't need a damage nerf or any nerf (only a fix for the "ignoring the ground" bug that some people noticed), it's still focused in one job only: aircraft. It can hit ground vehicles, yes, but against those you better use Decimator. Other than that, you can't hit turrets, infantry, MAX (which is an infantry, yes, but in PS1 we were able to lock-on to MAX) or even dumb-fire the ground to check if there's any enemy anti-infantry mines.
    I do play NC with my friend when I go to his house so we can play together and beer some, but it's been almost a month that we don't do it. So, I don't have any perspective from NC/VS side against Striker anymore. But one thing I can say: last time I played, it was really easy to avoid Striker's rockets. A single mouse turn + C and I was able to take some of the projectiles to the ground, the last 2~3 ones were always able to follow me, unless I could find a hill then all of them would blow up to the ground.

    I already suggested it before, but nobody liked the idea. I don't see how it would be bad:
    -400 damage per rocket instead of 500 when lock-on, total of 2000;
    -Make it able to dumb-fire instead of giving us back the ability to lock-on turrets;
    -325 damage per rocket when dumb-firing, total of 1625. Or maybe, make it fire all 5 rockets together.

    This would make the Striker lose the against-to-aircraft-only focus, and I think it should be OK for both TR and NC/VS.
  7. [HH]Mered4

    What *balance* do you speak of? I find the Vortex and Lancer to be the lasers of death when I am in a vehicle close to the ground.
    The Phoenix has killed me once or twice while in an ESF in the past few weeks too.
    AA has killed me more than anything.....(duh)

    I agree the Magrider is now the Inertrider, but really?

    TR arent *OP* we just shoot more bullets.

    sigh.
    Also, I played my VS account yesterday, and it was easy mode. I couldnt believe how easy it was to get kills compared to TR weapons.
    • Up x 1
  8. Technologist


    Tar, If you add up all my Characters they add up to around BR200. When you become more skilled you'll be rolling though classes and weapons often picking the best for each task. If you're Vanu and never used a skriker then you wouldn't know just how situational the striker really is. I might switch between striker, Decimator, Ml-7, annihilator, Mana turret, max blaster, max fractures, engineer dropping mines. Infiltrator, and max mercy TWENTY TIMES PER HOUR as the Strikers effectiveness window is VERY LIMITED.

    It's almost useless indoors, outdoors it's extremely hard to get a lock when your in a valley just not enough time that an ESF is lockable and tanks can simply move back a few feet when they detect the lock sound (blocked by the lands curve) Very high on a hill with a flat top with no enemy air support I switch to engineer with the mana turret as I have unlimited ammo and can kill infantry, sundies, tanks non stop. The certed Mana can dish out 2,000 damage every 4.5 seconds and kills much faster then the striker. The striker is so situational that I'll only switch to it 5-10% of the time as their is usually something much more effective.

    Turrets shooting at you? Forget the striker (useless) the manu or max fracture will take care of them or I switch to infiltrator, sneak in, hack the turrets including killing the guy inside, then kill the enemy's air and ground with their own turrets.

    VERY close tank battles the Decimator allows fire and retreat at 2000 damage. Close to medium with more mobile tanks the ML-7 at 1700 damage and twice the projectile speed is better as the tanks have less time to dodge the faster projectile. The striker has a hard time locking on to tanks with partial cover or air that is not stationary or in a lock on possition for a large amount of time. Just the time it takes to lock (hope he doesn't have flares) I could have downed an ESF with dual max blasters. I could go on but the striker has a very narrow window of use.
  9. Tar

    I'm not saying balanced design is easy to create, but you certainly can't make one faction have air superiority and one have ground superiority. Especially not by utilizing the two most annoying and frustrating to defend against mechanics available, which is lockon and deus-ex-Phoenix.


    In other words, it's supporting my case more than obviously.
    Don't forget this is about air, the statistic is not. I'm sure we'll agree that if only airplanes would be counted into this statistics, the numbers would be shifted FAR in favor of Striker. What we can see though in this statistics is the sheer popularity of the Striker.

    Right. "Most of us the TR". Perfect balance achieved!
  10. Zerlu

    All I know is that they gut my poor sundy but quick :(

    I'd rather run full blockade armor, but its easier to survive conventional explosives than it is suicide engies and their mines.
  11. Tar

    So are all other ESRLs. You must really be a killer in your rhetoric class!

    yet somehow in the whole wall of text you failed to compare it against something that would actually matter. And that is, guess what, some other weapon that is widely available to nonTR infantry. That's what this topic is about, remember?
  12. Tar

    This I noticed as well. Might be the whole problem. In any case, I don't see any reason why this was added.
    On the other hand, I also don't understand why Strikers can't lock on maxes and turrets, especially when they can't dumbfire either.


    "TR are OP Against AIR"
    "I die a lot in my tank"
    that was totally a counterargument. Well played sir!
  13. khai


    First paragraph. It depends on how far you go in your air "superiority" vs ground "superiority" a slight advantage in one vs a slight advantage in another tends to even out. as long as they are compatible levels of "Superiority". In this case my belief is that since there are so many common pool AA options that are just as effective deterrent if not an actual killer of Air support then the balance of Air superiority is maintained. I will even take your word that the Striker kills more Air then bursters and skyguards but as a deterrent which we both know is all AA really is unless the pilot is stupid, bad or overconfident.

    The second: How is that supporting your case? The fact that it is the lowest performing of the ESRL or that it hits 10% more then the lancer. There do not seem to be statistics for other lock on rockets but we are talking about 64% that means that 46% of the time a rocket is fired it is flared or hits terrain that does not count either way the times when a flare is used before the rockets are fired. On the argument that the striker shifts the balance of air power for the TR. Air statistics show that ESFs are the most deadly thing in the game and that while the TR has the striker the mosquito with that advantage and the infamous smaller hitboxes is the average ESF not the top of the heap. And yes comparing the Striker to the other ESRL in AA roles would show the Striker as the clear winner but the other ESRL are not designed for an AA so in that case you would have to look at it compared to say the burster but since there is no Air/hour kill numbers you would need to know how many tanks the strikers are killing and since we don't have those specifics either we have to go by anecdotal which is completely unreliable.

    And lastly I meant we ground troops not we TR, and though I play TR I do not have a striker because I tested it and it was annoying as hell for the same reason I do not use the Annihilator, I also play NC and VS though lately I have mainly played those factions on the test server.
  14. Maarvy

    Your now coming off as a douch just desparate to get something nerfed despite having a decent point in your main post . maybe its the 3-5 rabid replies after every other post or the insulting manner of every post .

    Nemesis launchers and anihilators lock on just as fast and at the same range as a striker , the missile's behave the same tacking over hills etc , the only differance is the amount there used ... there is not a balance issue between the 3 factions since they all have launchers capable of dening airspace in the same manner if they choose to use them .

    Is there a ballance issure between the new empire specific launcher .... maybe . Is there a ballance issue between AA and aircraft .... definetly .
  15. Technologist

    Adding 1000's of trees will probably reduce frame rates so that's not a solution. Just warp to Amerish if you want to hide in trees. Plenty there.
  16. Oathblivion

    Would nerfing their max speed and/or effective range be a suitable compromise? That way, you can still reduce the podding ESF to debris, but I can fly into your airspace to try and engage Libs and Mossies without having to use my entire AB tanks to break the lock.

    Also logic: since the Striker fires more missiles, they have to be smaller, and thus have less fuel than their single shot counterparts. Acceptable? I rather like it, but I use racer 3 and AB tanks on my reaver, so I might be a bit biased.
  17. Badname2490

    This just in.

    Skygod Airchavs butt mad that filthy ground walking untermensch can damage them with lock on rockets. The Airlord move to removing or nerfing them into the ground much like the NS annihilator. In closed rooms...most skygods decided that infantry should be completely unarmed for them to farm ...quoting "TIS OUR BIRTH RIGHT OF NOBILITY OF THE SKY!"

    More@11.


    HOW ABOUT YOU GET ******* STEALTH AND FLARES YOU ****TARD?!
  18. Oathblivion

    Question: Why must the pilot choose stealth or flares? There are more options for one's ESF (or any vehicle for that matter) than just stealth and flares. Currently, the choice is "Stealth+Flares or Death". Would the game not be better if the choice was "Stealth+Flares or have a pretty rough time dealing with both G2A and A2A locks"?
    • Up x 1
  19. gnometheft

    Just needs 3 lock ons to cause burning vs ESF's, 2 full locks should leave it at 30% health, not gibed. its utterly OP to have such a great anti vehicle ground weapon that can also 2 shot gib an esf in their lockon time. Strikers FORCE flares and its the only faction that does so, and the only faction with an effective anti air use out of their ESRL. needs to be toned down a bit
    • Up x 1
  20. Gristle McthornBody

    Nailed it.
    It's a built in handicap that (not forces) puts the VS or NC in a defensive state concerning flyers. Flares.... well, 1v1 they work, but if 2 or more lock on to you, even going behind terran does nothing, but waste resources.
    [IDEA] : show how many lock-on's you have at one time via hud maker maybe a cross-hair*** maybe have certs into lock-on detector by which puts the person locking-on on your mini map with a flashing dot... kinda like eve.