What would it take to remove ESFs entirely?

I never want liberator spam to come back EVER I do feel that skilled liberator crews (Which are typically 3/3) deserve a spot on the battlefield though don't you? Besides Burster Maxes would still be able to counter Liberators shooting at them, just not shoot at them from 600m away lol

ESF's are anti-air, anti-vehicle, and anti-infantry, all packed in a one-man aircraft that moves faster than anything in game.

Burster MAXes move slower than anything in game (without dash) and are only effective as anti-air.

Solution: nerf Burster MAX

We do this by buffing the Skygaurd and making it an effective range AA tank by increasing projectile velocity and decreasing the COF. Since the Lightning can't hide like an Buster Max, can't be reloaded by an Engineer, and costs 200 resources to pull it's balanced. Problem solved?

I miss being able to Libby for more than 10 seconds.

Yeah, this is another very valid point. This is a massive multiplayer game, it's not about 1v1 fights or even domain fights, it's about combined arms warfare (at least that's how it was advertised). Over large battles ground forces should be able to pull anti aircraft weapons and use them.

In my opinion it's a combination of factors that creates a gameplay and balance issue, none of these issues alone would be a problem it's how they combine to effect gameplay that's at issue. Easy revivability, low cost and ability to pull at any infantry terninal (which are everywhere), ability to reequip to different weapons on the fly, and range together as a whole combine to make MAXes simply too easy of a choice in any fight. I agree with you, easiest change would be to just reduce range and velocity of the projectiles, I wouldn't want to see damage touched though, in fact I really think within 100 meters AA MAX damage should be higher.

I'm not sure that would allow ESF vs ESF players any more ability to engage each other...but I'm all for making the Skyguard feel like a valuable cert investment.

You really can't do both. One or the other. If AA has to wait for ESF to enter their effective range and the projectiles are easily dodgable/take forever to reach the target it'll be completely useless.

I miss looking up after killing infantry and tanks to see a Liberator helping me out doing that awesome circle of death routine they do. A few talented Liberator crews in a large battle is fine, currently the skill cap on Liberators is high which is fine. What isn't fine is how they can never escape a battle they enter since Buster Maxes Instagib them before they can run away and do a lot of damage to them far away as they attempt to approach a battle.

It would balance it out, you're way more vulnerable in an XP filled Lightning Tank, you can't endlessly spam everywhere on the map unless you have a Ammo Sundy (400 resources + certs for Ammo Dispencer), and tanks and LA's love to chase down and kill skyguards (I know I do in my Prowler ). I will be very impressed if people manage to pull off Skyguard spam on the same level as they do Buster Max spam.

Just leaving this accurate self-explationary comic.

I think one of the biggest reasons people prefer the MAX is quite a few bases can't spawn tanks...and going to another base to drive back in a Skyguard opens you up to an entire host of additional problems, before you can even attempt to engage the offending aircraft. Now if' we're talking about a mobile anti-air team, that would be pretty nifty but I rarely see those as they are tank exp wagon trains.

I think one of the biggest reasons people prefer the MAX is quite a few bases can't spawn tanks...and going to another base to drive back in a Skyguard opens you up to an entire host of additional problems, before you can even attempt to engage the offending aircraft. Now if' we're talking about a mobile anti-air team, that would be pretty nifty but I rarely see those as they are tank exp wagon trains.

I don't have to pull a Max in case a Lighting might show up why should I for a ESF? And maxes are far from a good deterrent unless they are in a group I can easily kill one max even if it knows I am there.

And you will have to show me these stats because I can't see that being true.

Yea I ended up fitting the ejection seats to prepare for the inevitable.

Yes the fact you need a tank terminal also limits your ability to pull them. So I think we can come to a reasonable conclusion that giving the Burster Max a range nerf and then making the Skyguard Lighting a competent AA tank would be good for balance.

Range but NOT projectile speed and make the Lightning better sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Yes I already agreed doing the double nerf would be a step to far, the range nerf is all that is required.

No longer able to one shot tanks = no role?

I'm really dying right now thinking how a thread that started off with a semi-troll post became a civil and reasonable discussion about ESF and ground balance and solutions that are mutually pleasant to Pilots and ground pounders.

POR QUE?!?

Oh I don't want Lib spam, and I do understand how bad Libs are hurt by AA. But honestly liberators only suck because ESFs broke the Ground to air equation.

As long at ESFs can fly in get quick easy kills and bug out to safely rearm and repair, the slower more balanced Liberator will be killed with ease. That is why I would love to see ESFs lose the ability to attack ground targets with precision, that is the Liberators roll not the ESFs. And once ESFs are no longer the number one threat to ground from the air you can balance AA to better support Liberators being used again.