What would it take to remove ESFs entirely?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by phungus420, May 2, 2013.

  1. phungus420

    ESFs have no role in the game now as it stands. People still play them though. Even though it's much, much, much more difficult getting kills with an ESF in general then any other class or vehicle, it's still by far the most fun. I mean yeah, you can't take an ESF to any fight with more then 20 people, unless you're on the side of overwhelming force, in which case ESFs are good for vulturing, but for any real fight or organized outfit action ESFs are in every way pointless yet people still use them.

    Right now 90% of ESFs in the air just follow their zerg/outfit and are always on the side of overwhelming force, and even then if you join these platoons most of those ESFs get shot down, it's always the same names that can keep ESFs alive beyond timers and resources. Every single one of these players would be performing much better in any other class, yet they choose to stick with ESFs. Why and what would it take to get ESF playing players to actually just give up and choose a different game or different class/vehicle?

    From my perspective I just like the ESF mobility and given this game is almost always about overwhelming forces camping spawn rooms, the ESF is still to me the best way to find decent engagements that are enjoyable. I mean I get that most of you like to sit with 50 other players on a spawn room camping 3 dudes but for me that's boring, and that's pretty much how this game is played for the most par. With an ESF though you can leave those one sided battles and do your own thing when and where you want; the ESF is constantly in danger and constantly has targets of opportunity. Weak? Yeah, ESFs are the weakest unit in the game, dying to pistols and AA MAXes and literally everything is constantly firing at them. Even bad tankers scoring the occasional OHK tank round is a constant threat (sure it's 1 shot out of 100, but every ESF out there has random tank shots being fired at them constantly, eventually someone gets lucky).

    I was trying to figure out what would actually get me to stop flying and ESF. You could remove rocket pods, I don't use them anyway for the most part, I'd still be up there. You could make the rotary not kill infantry and I'd just use the needler. You could double burster MAX damage and I'd still fly and still hunt MAX units if it was even remotely possible. I don't know what it would take. I was trying to think about it and it just seems like no matter what ESFs are still going to be flying because the people who play ESFs are already playing the most difficult to use class against all odds and still succeding.

    What more can be done to the ESF to completely remove it from the game as a viable option? We've been heading this way since game release, and it's still totally viable in the right hands. What more should and could be done to get rid of these things and make the sky's truly clear?
    • Up x 7
  2. EliteEskimo

    Honestly I think they just need to nerf the Burster Max range or make them have a little slower projectile velocity. I think that would solve most of the problems don't you?

    Also if this was done we need to give the Skyguard the Burster Max stats because it's still mediocre and it's a dang AA tank.
    • Up x 9
  3. Trucky

    Just look at the other aircraft. ESF is in the heaven compared to its counterparts.
    • Up x 1
  4. Xind

    I don't know, but I promise you, I'll try to find out.

    One or the other, both would render them fairly useless. As it is, they're not that great on people doing strafing runs that aren't coming straight at you...they're fantastic at killing hovering targets, but I don't think anyone has any objections about putting down hoverpodders with extreme prejudice.
    • Up x 3
  5. Accuser

    It definitely would.
    Every patch has had a buff to AA and/or a nerf to air's damage. There's a reason the ESF has the lowest score per hour in the game now.
    • Up x 1
  6. j3thr0

    r u serious? why would we want ESF to be remove? do u fly or not? ESF is by far the most fun for me, it can make a difference, when you get use to it, its really really fun to use
  7. ChaosRender

    No ESFs are not the weakest unit in this game by any means, they are one of the strongest single man vehicles in game.

    ESFs wont get buffs till ether they lose the ability to hover. or they can no longer directly attack targets smaller then the new buggy. ESFs are one of the things that ruin most of the fights I am in, I think that is why they get nerfed so much.
    • Up x 2
  8. ChaosRender

    He is not asking for them to be removed he is complaining they are getting nerfed to much.
    • Up x 1
  9. phungus420

    I actually think ESFs are fun, and combat effectiveness isn't what playing a game for enjoyment is about, Optimization is only necessary in true competitive play. In MLG mode the game will be MAXes and nothing else, so be it, doesn't make much difference in the free for all game we play and that pays the bills.

    Burster MAXes ruin, completely ruin actually, any semblance of Air to Air fighting. The skys are just dominated by flak from MAXes making most ESF vs ESF engagements about proximity to AA MAXes and how to manipulate enemys into your flak and avoid getting drawn into enemy flak. In this sense losing burster range would help, ie it would allow Air to Air play to exist, but is that what we really want? I can say I do, but I know the system now, so who knows how the unknown would work out.

    I was more curious though about what it would take. In a game like this how useless can something be before it is completely discarded. There is still a whole lot more you could do to make my ESFs worse and I'd still fly mossys and sythes quite a bit, the reaver is actually pretty close to being too terrible to use outright, but even it could take a few more blows and still be viable for my playstyle.

    I think the next big hit to ESFs will be rotary damage to ground targets, specifically infantry. That still wouldn't be enough to get me to completely give up on the ESF. Even doubling burster damage and range would be trivial at this stage, most flyers would just adapt and keep doing their thing.
  10. EliteEskimo

    Ya nerfing the range of the Burster Max would also allow skilled Liberator crews back into medium to large scale battles again. I hated Liberator spam ruining large battles, but 1-4 in large scale battle would be cool. I love watching skilled Liberator crews make their cool circle strafe maneuver, watching it happen in a huge battle while ESFs fight to defend them would be an epic sight.:cool:
    • Up x 1
  11. Xind

    With all do respect, go higher. Bursters and lock ons become dynamically less effective the further away from the ground you are. The sky is dominated by flak because ground infantry and vehicles are absolutely tired of being farmed by rocket pods. If your intention is not to pod men to death, you don't need to be close to the ground and by being higher your ability to come in from the top on pilots who are pod farming will increase your chance to drop them before they realize what the **** is going on.
    • Up x 2
  12. ChaosRender

    If ESFs lost the ability to attack ground I would not mind seeing a return of Liberators, but the two together make for broken and unenjoyably battles on the ground.
    • Up x 2
  13. Jezs

    Their role is to grief players in low population areas who don't have any AA with them.
    • Up x 4
  14. Accuser

    ESFs aren't strong and the stats play that out. Flying one gives the lowest score per hour of any role in the game.
    And I'm pretty sure it's a complete lack of AA that "ruins the fights you're in"... One MAX can deter most ESFs. Two MAXes will kill any ESF that moves into the hex.
  15. EliteEskimo

    If we nerf the Burster Maxes range and then buff the Skyguard then ESFs will mostly only have to deal with a much bigger target that will have a hard time hiding. There's no logical reason to further nerf the ESF indirectly or directly, and that's coming from a dedicated Tanker/Max User.
    • Up x 1
  16. phungus420

    I agree. In fact I think AA MAXes aren't effective enough at killing hover spammers... but that's another topic. As of right now for me though the most noticeable effect of AA MAXes their ability to outright deny airspace over a huge area.
    • Up x 2
  17. NietCheese

    What in god's name are you talking about? You can kill everything in the game, infantry, liberators, galaxies, other ESFs, armor, turrets.

    Stop crying because they took away the ability for you to kill a heavy tank in 1.5 seconds.
    It was a broken game mechanic.

    Learn to play or go away.
  18. EliteEskimo

    Ya that's a good point, a range nerf would likely be the best option don't you think. Nothing annoys pilots more then getting nicked by Maxes 500-600m away and having their dog fights ruined.
  19. Xind

    I think a range nerf would give ESF vs ESF players exactly what they want. Air space safe from Flak. However, we need to defend ourselves from liberators and pod farmers and what's to keep them from just flying up in addition to diving behind cover when the heat is put on them? It's hard to find a solution that will keep the ground from being a shooting gallery for the sky and allow aircraft to engage in enjoyable battles without interference.

    But to be perfectly frank to you ESF vs ESF pilots, infantry have to deal with snipers...which is tantamount to the same thing as interloping flak. I hate fighting a guy in a moving battle when suddenly one of us drops dead from a guy we can't see who we weren't engaging. Even when he's my ally it's boring that my opponent was more or less killed by "third party programs" who need a dialogue box that comes up after every shot that says, "Shoot off screen to reload."
  20. phungus420

    I hear you but there are two reasons "go higher" isn't a valid choice. 1) My primary targets are other ESFs, (I rarely load rocket pods, I actually only load them now specfically to deal with AA MAXes), most ESFs are at or near ground level choosing targets of opportunity for rocket pods - engaging said ESFs always brings you in range of ground AA. 2) Many areas of the map don't allow for getting high enough to avoid ground AA, most noteably southern Indar where it is often impossible to avoid flak from what seems like omnidirectional sources.