The NC6 Gauss SAW, T9 CARV and the Orion - Replacing myth with facts

If designing the TR to have their advantage be RoF would make them OP, then give the TR a proper design philosophy rather than this placeholder from PS1.

Make the argument that Orion is better then Carv because it has lower recoil then ignore that and claim saw is best LMG in game despite of having recoil 20% higher then both Orion and Carv combined.

Didn't bother to read the rest after original posters extreme bias was revealed.

Saw is a horrible starting LMG compared to Carv and not the choice of experienced NC players ether. Once I get my 200 cert medal with SAW it i'm moving onto a better LMG.

By the way.
ALL HAIL THE GLORIOUS SAW AT RANGE


100 meters, you can't burst. the second bullet, like i've said, will fly above the target head.

PS: that while i'm aiming at his feet. and of courses you will never do so in a actual combat.
PS2: Ppl who claim that the SAW "IS DA BEST WAPON IN THE GAMU!" or never actually used that or don't realize they could have been doing the same at range while being WAY better in CqC.

Saw is a big joke.

Short bursts at range with ads on. The first 3-10 go straight in. Serious try in vr.

Crouch or ads. Then shoot. When the reticle gets too big click the fire button. It recent era to a small dot. It's butch.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdFhHUzJfN1VYalRnWS0xMnBUdTJpM1E&gid=43

Both the orion and carv outscore the saw.

The saw is a clumsy weapon when doing anything but firing in single shots. Any moment, any situation, where you're firing more than 1 round burst you will be better served by any other lmg.

As a disclaimer, I picked up the SAW when people cried out that it was UP and immediately recognized both its starting potential and potential with attachments (which imo is justified since no other LMG has 200 damage). This post of yours is a few months late, but appropriate nonetheless.

However, I must say that I disagree on the bit that I bolded and underlined. You could just as easily flip this argument around to say that in order to compete with the higher RoF LMGs, of which TR and VS have the superior pick both to begin with and after purchase, NC players have to buy their equivalents. That said, it's also possible to compete with the SAW at range with the starting Orion, utilizing its ADS capabilities.

Certainly, in an isolated environment, the SAW is most likely to come up on top. However, its moving ADS isn't that great and each shot missed hurts the TTK greatly. The player is left with the choice of standing still, risking a OHK or two-shot kill by snipers, or strafing and missing important shots, with each missed shot counting for extra since the SAW reigns with damage per shot.

I do believe that this is a fact of long ranged combat that you brought up yourself. Under these conditions, the Orion user is much more likely to survive while also dishing out damage.

Since one image is worth a thousand words and one video is worth about 30 images per second, I decided to go ahead and make a short video depicting CARV's horrible, impossible to control recoil. It's always useful to have a frame of reference when you discuss something.

VR room, reflex sight, foregrip on, no bursts or anything fancy - just magdumping till target dies.

Meanwhile the GD-7F, yeah i know it's a carbine but it's the biggest RoF aside from SMG, at same range do misery.


Sure this additional damage IS SO USEFUL.

But go ahead keep claiming that your Math can't be wrong.

Just saying... but at this range if a full auto worked well welcome to RoFside.

TRY he SAW bro. or watch my videos.

Hisenburg, you are a legend and a hero.
If anyone dares to refute that the SAW is the best out-of-the-box-and-default LMG (and maybe even the best LMG) they are a fool.
If anyone dares to refute that the CARV is ****, then they are also a fool.
If anyone dares to refute that this is a problem, then they are the worst fool.

Do not convince yourself of lies and false criticism, it is dishonest and reflects negatively on the ultra-libertarian paradise that is the NC which I respect.

You are my bro, bro.

Oh my god people, you can't use gun performance to make a point on the forum, that goes against the gun stats! Making videos of the SAW recoil patterns? Pshh, that doesn't show anything valid, go back to the original post and read that the SAW has less recoil than the CARV and Orion. Honestly people grow a brian...

Only fool's are the ones who think the Carv is a PoS ..

As good as the Gauss at range ? nope .. But it's not supposed to be .. If people want it good at range then it should be nerfed in CQC ranges.

Less Horizontal ( Yes Gauss has horizontal recoil ) but more vertical

I was speaking with tongue in cheek. Trolling, as it were. Wait for it though, some Terrans are about to quote me and say how correct it is and use it to push their propaganda further.

Do understand that the ability to compensate for vertical recoil makes it nearly meaningless. The SAW has a much higher skill ceiling than either of the other two.

Please note: Data and Logic > Personal Experience and Videos
Statistical fact and more importantly the analysis of that fact trumps "Empirical Evidence" every day of the week to anyone that has a brian.
Edit: And for the record I debated about responding because I had a hard time believing that someone could be so absurd.

* Brains.

That being said i, probably don't need to answer/ care about you but lets go.

"Allow me to open up my great book of statistics. The Gauss SAW has 0.55 vertical recoil. That's more than the Orion and CARV by 20%"

In game what defines what weapon is good or bad or you win or lose a engagement it's not damage neither Rate of fire but the numbers of bullets you can place in the enemy.

That being said:
A weapon with higher RoF will win up close. Because you know... it shoots faster.
A weapon with lesser Recoil per bullet will win at distance. Because less Recoil = bigger "controled" bursts = more bullets in the enemy = more damage.

And guess of all weapons what are the ones with less Recoil per bullet? YEAH THE FREAKING HIGH RoF!

Damage is good only if you are aiming for head shots. If you are doing so you should be playin a Infiltrator not a heavy/medic/whatever.

PS: you got me too.. damn =p didn't see the trolling coming.

PS: Compensation for recoil works in the higher RoF weapons, this makes your "argument" at least dubious

LOL.

Good game

And the horizontal recoil difference is hardly if at all noticeable .. Recoil in general is easily compensated for , it's things like CoF that can't be controlled that's more a problem.

Hey, if I play the SAW video at 2.0x speed, it has the same TTK at that range that the GD7 does

SAW is OP, nerf pls <3

What is wrong with people like this? Why is it they obsess over a single directional recoil, the vertical, that can be compensated for by pulling the mouse TOWARDS THEM, but seem to completely ignore or selectively ignore the fact that a recoil pattern that alternates between pulling left and right at random intervals is impossible to compensate for, and thus lower recoil values trump high recoil values in terms of accuracy?

Are all NC really this stupid, unskilled, or both? Also, at the 10 second SAW video poster, try not to demonstrate it like a noob and compensate for the first shot or at least TRY to. It's painfully obvious what you're trying to prove, but failing miserably because anyone with at most 2 hours FPS experience could tell you what's really the problem with the SAW in that video, and it ain't the gun.

And Jablon, let's try shooting at targets 100m away and use a 3.4x or 4x scope to make the recoil more obvious. I suggest shooting at the far off VS to the south of the facility in the VR. Mark them > map > waypoint their exact position so no one can refute the distance. If you're feeling up to it, do the same with the SAW. Make sure to include stock versions of both at least.

No, I won't make a video I'm not about to make proving a point in PS2 be my first youtube video evar.

So you need to have special circumstances setup specially to illustrate where your gun fails? Funny, cause that's the same way experienced SAW users approach using their gun so that it doesn't. Funny these little logical circles we can run in...

'Horizontal recoil is hardly noticeable' is conjecture, and I can't do much besides go in the game and measure the amount of degrees the sight shifts as well as the average human benchmark for ability to adjust from a predictable outcome such as recoil to factually disprove your statement, but it does rely on a few key other conjectures that can be countered in this realm. Accuracy in this game is king, its components are far more meaningful than any other numeric. Now here's my counter conjecture on the nature of horizontal recoil: Horizontal recoil is, on average, the second most important and impactful statistic when dealing with accuracy, and its effects are not to be belittled. And my second conjecture: Horizontal recoil is VERY noticeable.

Also realize that, as the OP pointed out, that horizontal recoil cannot be compensated for as it is impossible to predict. Let's do some math, particularly statistics.

P(A) = .5, P(B) = .5 where event A is the chance for the gun to kick left, and event B is the chance for the gun to kick right. There are also varying degrees by how much it kicks in either direction, thus compounding the problem of individual events even if you manage to guess right.
In statistics, probability is the certainty that an event will occur in the long run, and an 'individual event' is where knowing the outcome of the previous event does NOT influence the outcome of the next, such is recoil.

The fact is that it is useless to predict or try to compensate for horizontal recoil, just as CoF, but that fact is mitigated that CoF can be compensated for by burst firing and getting the guy in your cone, to varying degrees, but CoF is overall just as if not more important. Yes CoF affects where your bullets go within that cone, but recoil affects where the cone is pointing, a deciding factor. Take that as you will.