Replacing K/D with SPM? Don't make me laugh

And the dumbing down for the xbox generation who grew up with "everyone is a winner!" nonsense continues.

Truth is, most of the times you end up in that situation, nothing you do will turn the tides, even if everyone in the spawn room gets out at once, they'll all die in a few seconds, accomplishing nothing, in those cases I just go defend/attack another place instead of wasting time there. Though it's true that there are some situations were you could turn the tides but you end up losing the base because you're only one willing to actually get out (kind of a prisoner's dilemma there), they're not that common.

People will keep camping inside the spawn room KD or not. Easy exp.

Getting rid of KD will help SOE though because it will be harder to spot the hackers.

Wrong. People are sick and tired of half their faction camping inside the spawnroom walls, achieving nothing, and therefore want it removed. Recorded K/D leads to cheesy (e.g. vehicle driver logout), counterproductive (e.g. farming sunderers without destroying them) and egoistic (e.g. snipers killing each other over good spots) play in a good amount of people.
Recording lifetime stats is a cancerous development in modern games. Did CS / Battlefield (the good ones) / TF2 etc. etc. have it? No. COD has it.
Removing it would just lead to a more relaxed time for everyone. The good people will, and have always, stand out and be recognized regardless of tracked stats.
All it would do is get rid of the "look at the sick K/D in my signature! Therefore I must be right!"-trolls in the forums.

SPM means nothing to me.
Its like being in a timed mission.
"Hurry hurry kill kill"

I take my time in killing and am not motivated by SPM or feel the need to rush things.

I do however like my K/D and play accordingly to protect it.

If you wanted this game to have a meaningful score system then you would some real rating system that takes quite a few things into account:

Overall Accuracy
Deaths
Kills
Support
Overall battle worth (capturing defending)
Commanding bonus
unboosted SPM


This would result in a rating system that always keeps track of everything you do and would end up showing that 75-85% of the players of this game dont even achieve or keep the starting value and thus only 15-25% of the players are good.

Just like any rating system in the world will

A perfect rating system outside of chess Elo has not actually been made yet and chess Elo is actually a 1 on 1 rating system... it has been used in multiplayer games but the success is rather mixed.

That sounds more like you have a problem with how someone else prefers to play the game. I agree that sitting behind an invincibility shield to pad your KDR is lame but far be it from me to tell someone else how to play the game if they are doing it within the rules. Personally, I think spawn rooms should be scrapped all together and replaced instead by a "frontlines" spawn that will manifest a certain distance from hotspots where there is a certain density of friendlies- that way, everyone would be forced to drop in near a battle (but not inside a invisible box that may or may not be getting camped). This could improve the ability to find good fights, would prevent camping more or less entirely and would increase the strategy required to maintain an effective front. The only issue I could see arising would be with large facilities and making sure that defense was viable but there are safe guards for this that could be implemented such as only allowing drops in hexs you control.

Not so sure about that- Buzz has healthy KDR and has taken several stances against KDR.

But generally (as he said), people who hate K/D have bad K/D, that doesn't mean there are some people with good K/D that hate it too. And by hate I mean all of those who say "K/D should disappear NOW!!!!!111", not those who just don't take it into account for anything.

Personally, I use it as a measure of my own improvement, nothing more, nothing less. If I wanted to compare my K/D with the K/D of another guy I couldn't draw any good conclusions unless they have a similar playstyle to mine (which means I can only compare my K/D with people who play mostly as HA).

In conclusion, for comparisons it's a bad metric (but then, almost all stats are bad for that unless you control by a lot of other variables), but it's actually pretty good for measuring only yourself and how you've been improving (assuming you didn't change your playstyle in the middle of course).

Fair enough, although, I would argue that a lot of the people who "hate" KDR in the way you describe probably either play a lot of support (like medics) where KDR is completely worthless yet gets used by others as an invalid argument to dismiss them as being bad. That, or you are probably talking about people who play hard to the objective rather than camp for easy kills and get sick of campers and vehicle jockeys with high KDRs acting like they are awesome and doing it right. Personally, I think it is all a bunch of nonsense.

That being said, I am vehemently against the KDR reset button idea that floated around the forums a little while back but that is for somewhat different reasons- essentially, the threat of a KDR reset button is (1) it accomplishes nothing beyond making the stat all the more worthless while (2) potentially having a high enough risk/reward or profit margin to divert some (or any really) of SOE's resources towards implementing similar gimmicks that have 0 effect or improvement upon gameplay.

They lump that into SPM

SHIIIIIAT if they judged people on base caps...my outfit would be in the single digits on leader board. Defending is a fickle thing. I know we defend a lot, but we don't always wait for the "FACILITY DEFENDED" pop up...or at least used to since there was no reward for it.

But you can play to the objective without camping and get a good KDR anyway, I don't understand why people keep insisting they're negatively correlated, it's that way only for those who are really bad, a decent/good player won't get a bad K/D by playing to get to the objective (unless they go suicide mode, which isn't optimal from any point of view imo).

I have mixed feelings about that, yes, it would make comparisons completely worthless unless you know who did the reset and who didn't, but on the other hand, it wouldn't affect me because I only use the KD to measure my improvement, plus SOE gets some more money to spend on improving the game which is good (though I don't know how many idiots would buy that item)

Adorable. If you looked even closer at my stats, you'd see that I have 10% playtime as a MAX and 80% as a Heavy, not to mention I have far more kills with my EM6 than I do with both Hacksaws combined. Sure, I've got a lot of hacksaw kills. That's because I'm a good MAX, doesn't mean it's all that I play.

For real. and once again K/D ratio in an "mmo" ..oh brother

I disagree- someone who pushes hard to the objective in the face of overwhelming odds may help turn the tide of the battle but will not end up with anywhere close to the KDR of someone sitting in the backfield with a sniper rifle or MBT spamming in relative safety. A medic helping push that lunatic HA forward into the fray over and over will also probably not end up with a decent KDR but are arguably having a bigger impact on securing the objective than those who try to stay in relative safety. The list goes on. KDR only matters if the number of enemies you kill before you die has a direct relationship with winning the objective but in the case of PS2 I just do not see where this matters. You can sit in a Lib and own people all day long with a huge KDR but without someone in the dirt flipping the point you are worthless as far the objective is concerned.

SOE having more money is good, I agree. SOE putting more resources into additions that have 0 impact on the gameplay is a bad thing. Problem is, if SOE does something like a KDR reset button and it proves to be a better risk/reward or have a higher profit margin than say the relatively much more difficult, risky, and time consuming work of creating quality content then it stands to reason that the probability of SOE diverting more resources towards these kinds of gimmicks increases and this, by necessity, diminishes the potential resources they could put towards quality content, gameplay, and performance.

My question is why do people want to get rid of K/D? How is this going to help YOU (the people crying about it) play the game better? To my knowledge people play this game the way they want, regardless if K/D was there or not. No one likes dying in a video game. So the shield spawn room camping would still happen regardless if K/D was removed. Just play the game and stop crying about it.

I did what you said many times while getting higher KDs than my average (and lower too, of course, but the average deviation from the global average is close to zero), of course if I'm pushing, I'm pushing while being careful, I'll not go inside a room sprinting while shouting "FOR VANUUUUUUUUUU", but my point is that it's not a factor that hurts or helps my KD at all, maybe it suits my playstyle, who knows. Btw, my argument doesn't have anything to do with comparing with that guy sitting in a Lib, or sniping from 200m away, I already said that KD for cross class comparisons is useless.

But a thing like a KDR reset button is just something that serves as a way to get money now, but it won't affect how many people play the game and things like that, think of it as extra money and nothing else, they should know pretty well that in order to get more money consistently over time they have to maintain the playerbase, and to do that they have to improve the game, so in that way, I'm not worried that implementing that reset button will affect the development in areas of the game that are useful, so far I've seen a LOT of improvements in this 5 months I've been playing.

"I'll keep camping inside the spawnroom, don't wanna die and miss a kill whenever someone steps in front of the door"

That's the problem with death.
Time spent alive = certs
Time spent dead = no certs


Anyway the horse has been beaten to death.
Cert grinding is a bigger priority than K/D

K/D should disappear now. Right now in fact. It should be used for internal balancing and nothing else. If you attempt to make a balance post about... let's say pump action pro pipes, and your K/D is .87, you will be ridiculed as bad by people who lean heavily on shotgun crutches. However, if you have a "respectable" K/D, you will be attacked in other slightly more creative ways by the same crutch-using cheesers. At least the cheap and easy "you're bad, lol .87 K/D" goes away.

In addition to the impacts it has on ForumSide, it changes player behavior in-game (mine included) to play more conservatively and camp (the absurdly low TTK encourages camping as well), sometimes to the point of disobeying orders to throw yourself into a meat grinder of scattercannons and pump action noob cannons.

K/D is bad. Bad bad bad. It has no place in an objective-driven, team-based game. It is the stuff that arena games (MOBAs and FPS alike) are based around. PlanetSide is too complex to have such a statistic actually be presented to the players, because people will place a lot of value on it due to conditioning from arena-style games and it has obvious effects on player behavior in every single battle.

SPM is just as worthless as KDR .. Both just promote the use of the current unbalanced farming tool.