LA sound on test server ... rise up brothers

its only a stealh sheet it cant be turned on and off or something like that

I am all for making the Jetpack noise better, but louder???? HA Class dominates this game and crushes the space for any other classes already.

Not liking this... way too loud and high pitched...they just needed to raise the current sound. Big letdown.

This is a very welcome change. Cannot count the number of times I have died to a LA/C4 because there is absolutely no sound. Meanwhile infiltrators cloak can be heard from half a base away.

You do, because with silent Jetpacks you have absolutely no warning - as my example of a LA jetpacking up to a window and OSK though it so perfectly demonstates (there is simply no real counter too it).

Making the Jetpack louder adds a warning turning a certain kill into a possible kill, as it should be in a balanced game.

Again yet more personal attacks and insults simply mean you have absolutely no cogent arguments to pit against mine and you have, in pure desperation, to resort to that. And I still won't engage with that sort of nonsense, sorry.

No, LA are the only class that can silently Jetpack up to a second story window (that has absolutely no shot angle otherwise) and shot you in the ear with a PA.

They would still be able to do it, potentially with a Jetpack that wasn't silent, but at least their oppenents would have a fighting change rather than silent instant one shot death.

Again all other entrances on the ground and upper floor were covered, the window wasn't, because the only class that could have done anything through it would have been LA Jetpacking. Now with sound someone might have been able to hear that an react, but currently with an effectively silent jet pack the first their target knows about it is a OSK to the ear.

LA jetpacks need to be audiable to counter this.

Indeed I completely agree IF LAs were visiable on the mini-map when using Jetpack and you could see them through buildings and walls there woulds indeed be no need to make Jetpacks non-silent, however that isn't how things are.

So the only solution is to make Jetpack louder, so they aren't the quiets thing in the game.

This is exactly it, making the Jetpack so it isn't functionally silent simple adds a potential counter for players playing very well.

Against bad players there is no difference.
In a massive loud battle there is no differences.

However against good players or in a very quiet environment LA player will need to think before they Jetpack to get the best out of them - this is exactly how it should be.

So, reinforce the LA in his role of noobslayer ? .... that sounds like an interesting concept class.

Can't wait for them to remove the weapon slot on the cloaked wraith, I'm guessing we'll be in the opposite situation then.

LA might be better at infiltrating right now because INFs are poorly balanced, but by god the stealth field Flash with wrath is by far the best flanking tool in the game. You want my stealth? Surrender your stealthed weapon slot and vehicle damage. This isn't infiltrating

Why. Someone read the posts before they respond please. Give me empirical data on why the LA need a nerf. No? Then stop posting your opinions as facts.

a) You have no indicator on players being skilled or not when you're 50-60m away
b) Good players already cover obvious LA entrances, scrub players don't.

Players don't have that data, and never will, anymore than they have a weapon that equals a Pellet PA Shogun at CQC and a long range certed LMG at longer range.

However adding sound to Jetpack means that good players have some counter and that good LA can use that itself as an advantage (for example the double bluff, fire Jetpack to make it seem like a top floor attack but then come in from the ground floor).

No, add a skill gradient to the LA class, allowing throughful and clever players to get much more out of the class.

Again I'd wouldn't be surprised to see LA get other buffs if the Jetpack made non-silent, but with it as it currently is I think the LA is more likely to get its weapon choice nerfed.

Its not a gradient, it is a hard counter. When player x reaches skill level y (say over BR3, meaning you've tried LA and know the sound) then no LA can surprise you with this sound. They will be aware and your element of surprise is lost, and your weaponry is inferior and your survivability is lower. No chance of countering a max or more than one player, a slight advantage of first shot for 1vs1, if it isn't a HA or MAX. Infiltrators can just stealth and counter you.

Indeed they cannot if they Jetpack up or down right next to you, anymore than a Inflitrator can cloak or de-cloak within earshot without being heard, again I think this is as it should be.

But with a bit of thought they still can, or indeed in noisey battles they still can.

It is true that in large battles this won't affect LAs in a big way, but there we're already at disadvantage due to cqc weapons and no shield or healing. In vanguard units of LA, which is the only way to strategically use LA in operations atm, this will have a huge impact.

And not next to you, 60m away from you. Being aware of LA in the area will make you actively scout instead of camp, and we don't have the utility or weaponry for that.

I'm sorry but it's stupid to have an ability which sucess depends on the skill (unknown) of the enemy. The other classes don't.
HA's shield is the same regardless of the enemy's skill, and depends only on how you use it. The heal effect for medic is the same. The engineers abilities don't depend on the enemy's skill.
Also, making a class ability is a nerf. There is no upside to this for the LA. There's nothing 'skilled players' LA can get out of a noisy jetpack that they can't get out of a silent one. That'll be the exact opposite.

Oops : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdFhHUzJfN1VYalRnWS0xMnBUdTJpM1E&gid=33
(and yes, this is the official data) Duh, LA's op, I wonder why they perform so well [/sarcasm]

Just in case you missed it:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdFhHUzJfN1VYalRnWS0xMnBUdTJpM1E&gid=33

In big battles adding an audiable noise to Jetpack will have pretty much no effect at all, which is fair enough.

Weapon-wise I still don't see your point.
Shield-wise LA aren't HA they aren't going to get a shield.
Healing-wise LA can take a med kit like everyone else (no C4 though) otherwise it's only Medics that have any healing advantage.

So again I don't understand, you seem to want every ability form every class AND a weapon that does everything......... it's just not going to happen.

Stupid or not that's how many things working in games in general and PS2 specifically.
The Jetpack doesn't depend on enemies skill at all, you press button it works, the use of the Jetpack to best advantage would with an audiable noise, just like a shield, or a mine or dropping an ammo pack, or healing or whatever.

Could either of you point out to me where in that spread sheet it shows the effect of Jetpack volume on LAs? I can't see it anywhere on there, I guess I just must be missing it, although I have to wonder why Hagestol was asking for it if he already knew where it was.

Any time you're ready.

Jeez. Because healers heal more than LA, HA deal more damage and have more shielded absorbed damage than others, infiltrators snipe more than others, engineers repair more than others and LA flank and kill more than others. It is our trait.

If you want to make it less effective you have to give a reason founded in proof. Right now there isn't enough of the "silent killing" to warrant any nerf, in fact it should be buffed as it isn't a mecanic that is overused or even abused by class switchers. It is simply our mechanic.

Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdFhHUzJfN1VYalRnWS0xMnBUdTJpM1E&gid=33
(Thats how you do it)

The point of the weapin argument my friend, isn't to get exactly what the others have but get a large buff in damage and utility to counter everyone knowing we're arriving. If you want us to take a giant nerf to surprise and we're underplayed, you'll have to give us a giant buff to other stuff.

It shows that LA is the 2nd worst class. Why would they need a nerf in this case ? (And a change, with only downside and no upside IS a nerf)

Indeed, but it shows nothing about Jetpack volume and its effect on the LA (which is what Hagestol keeps asking for).
It also doesn't show how much time an "Engineer" spends in a MBT or ESF and how that effects score per hours.
Or show how much score per hour for a HA comes from AV.
etc. etc.

A HAs armed with the same weapon deals the same amount of damage as a LA.
LAs use Jetpacks and fly more than any other class and can run faster - they have far more mobility than any other class.

I'm not seeing a point here.

We have a SAW equivalent? Please, by all means show me the stat comparison and graphs to indicate that.

I'm asking for WHY you want to nerf LA sounds in CONTEXT with our low population. You don't like the sound, I understand. Doesn't matter. You don't like being killed for being unaware in camping objectives. Tough, thats the LA job. You want an advanced warning that LA is coming for you? I want overshield, healing, an invisible buggy with a grenade launcher. Doesn't mean it is a good idea.

Actually, yes, it doesn't show vehicles data, which are separated (here for MBT if you want : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdFhHUzJfN1VYalRnWS0xMnBUdTJpM1E&gid=32) And hey, if HAs are better against AV (that's their role after all, why not), LA should have something else to balance, right ? Or would they just be equal of HA in infantry fight, but inferior against AV ?
You are saying a noisy sound on LA is a good thing. I don't care about what data was required (or so you thought) earlier. I show you the data here and : Can you explain why a class that is underpowered could benefit from a nerf ? Can you answer this question rather than saying 'This is not what was asked'