[Rant (Short)] Sad side of Miller

I have never thought that... my not stupidly low K/D hides the fact i actually kill **** tonnes of vehicles on regular basis, problem is there is being good and there is expectations of vehicles based on roles set out by the designers. Perhaps I'm foolish to think that i can out dogfight a liberator in an ESF, seeing as i have far less of an issue with other ESFs in the dog-fighting stakes. I think the roles as i thought as defined by the development team, turn out to be bogus.

Imagine fight a ESF that could gib you from the front, explode you from the underneath and damage you heavily from behind. Yes they have more pilots and yes those pilots and gunners are skilled. I'm saying that how bad do i have to be before a liberator outclasses an ESF in air combat?

Summary

Tank burster - kills in one full round
Dalton/Zephyr - one hits you

Rotary - 4-5 Full magazines pumped into lib, to kill
Rocket Pods - 3-4 Full salvos on target, to kill
A2a (don't use) - 4-5 Missile locks

Lib jumps you and your dead before you can even react. ESF jumps a liberator, they get ample time to turn around and dogfight you down, or run away/kite you into enemy air. You can't kill a liberator that is dog-fighting you very quickly, in fact not even over quite long periods of cat and mouse and avoiding close range, you have to keep making distance and then returning to fire and back again. If your lucky you may get a kill, far more likely another enemy fighter turns up shoots or heaven forbid locks onto you, game over man, game over.

In a perfect world, Liberators should have air escorts to ensure their safety. Not the other way around.

What are you, 14? 'Cause that's an insult more suited to that age bracket, and not to a fair amount of those who frequent these forums.

Down-scaled the size of most of your post to avoid it taking too much space.

Except your numbers.
A tank buster -can- kill in one magazine -if- most bullets hit, and it also requires quite a few expensive certs(1000 certs for the last 2 bullets in the magazine) to up the magazine size. If an ESF is stationary enough in relation to the Lib to take a full magazine of the tank buster, then the EST pilot is bad and deserves it.
The rotaries are good if you -hit-. Again, that's down to the skill of the pilots. And if both the lib and the ESF run level 3 frames the ESF is more maneuverable. And to build on that, if a lib runs with pilot/gunner, then the ESF should find a wing man. Two ESFs working together are much more effective than 2 lone wolfing ESFs.

Rockets pods are Air2GROUND. If you're using them I have no sympathy for missing air targets.
2 ESFs using Air2Air, alternating between rotary-cannons and missiles will obliterate a Lib(if they don't suck).

If you still fail vs the good liberator pilots you're simply put too bad of a player to really expect to beat them.

Edit: Speaking of the Dalton/Zepher(not zephyr): Yes they may 1-shot ESFs, but doing so with the Zepher is down to either luck, or an amazingly moronic ESF pilot.

Yet I digress.
If you got mauled by a shredder, would you rage to the same extent? It does the same damage as the Tank Buster, + it's easier to aim properly.

Not very observant are we? I wasn't even aware it was an insult. FYI you either insult somebody or you don't, there is no middle ground.

As for numbers, I'm basing those on experience so they aren't gospel truth but approximations. Yes, they are assuming the vast majority hit, they were meant as a means of comparison. My main grumble is that if Libs catch you by surprise they will gib you. I rarely get killed by dogfighting libs but outlasted all the time. Normally long enough for other air to interfere.

There is no quick way to kill a lib from the air, bar bringing larger numbers. Unless you roll out with a coordinated outfit that does air, think again. It shouldn't require such coordinated effort to take down one vehicle, irregardless of skill. Every vehicle should have some kind of hard counter, name the Liberators?

Its an unfortunate state of affairs but im pretty sure that most RvR games have suffered from some form of *night /off peak capping* .
Its a tricky thing to solve, Pirates of the burning sea had similar problems and they tried to resolve it by only allowing port battles, the battles that determined owner ship of a contested town, in time slots determined by the server . so a euro server would use slots in their prime time.

I guess if we ever get continent locking then its possible SOE could use a similar system by only allowing a lock in the servers prime time. Of course folks will ***** and moan no matter what they try.

But i appreciated it does suck monkey balls if your the faction that`s getting rolled horribly simply due to population imbalance rather than any real strategy.But i have no idea how you`d go about fixing it without a massive flurry of forum posts screaming Why you no let me play when i want etc etc

If you get jumped by a lib to such an extent that he gets to easily put 42 bullets in your ESF, then you're not doing your ESF-piloting very well.
Moreover, there's a term called asymmetrical balance, or an even unbalance. What I mean with this is that if you take prowlers and compare them to HAs, one prowler mauls one HA. 10 Prowlers vs 10 HAs, the prowlers may still win, but now it's a bit iffy.
Take 50 prowlers and 50 HAs. Now the HAs may obliterate the prowlers.
On top of that, take one prowler, and one LA with a good vantage point. LA glides over, drops some C4, prowler is insta-gibed. In turn, if a LA meets a Ha in a corridor, the HA will probably win.

The anecdote is that one lib that gets the jump on one ESF has any right to be able to win that duel. Take 10 libs and 10 ESFs, and don't be surprised to see the ESFs rolling the libs, even if the libs gets to shoot first.

The thing is that in this game you can't always expect to win by skill alone if you're solo, regardless of what you're playing. You say you don't want coordinated outfits to be required to take down this and that? Then you're playing the wrong game. Consider it an incentive to take part in coordinated outfit play.

Alternativly, take 10 Burster MAXes vs 10 libs. The MAXes are likely to chase the libs off, or outright kill them.
One of the problems with your reasoning is that it seems you want to be able to lone wolf and still be effective in all you do.
While I see where you're coming from, in this game you can't expect to always be effective when going alone.


TL;DR?
Play with an outfit.

How about no. I refuse to accept this argument, firstly I don't rate any of our outfits on Miller. I actually find being on VoIP with a bunch of repressed, 'mature', wanna-be generals, not to my taste and not very fun. If I find an outfit with a good humour and also concerned with winning. There is a lot of skilled players in the game, unfortunately most of them aren't found within outfits.

As for Liberators. There are a myriad of things that can take out or reduce the effectiveness of the unwary EsF pilot. Do we really need Liberators as well? I do my best to avoid ground based attacks and mostly succeed until I get reckless. Another good ESF pilot will take me down 9 times out of ten, unless I can lose them, turn on them or kite them into friendly air or AA.

A2a users are the bane of other ESF users, this method is the easiest and lowest skill cap method for denying enemy ESF. Whilst I hate it, I don't deny it's right to exist. If you fly a liberator it shouldn't be so much a matter of skill whether you survive, but whether you meet an effective counter. Currently liberator is the only vehicle setup that profit so much against uncoordinated players. It only takes two to man. Skilled or not every other vehicle in this game can be countered effectively. Apart from a force multiplier, there is no effective counter to Liberators.

First and foremost, if you don't want to play in an outfit(and if you're correct in your assumption that there's no good TR outfit on Miller, which I find hard to believe), then you're simply out of luck, as some would say. Yes I'm VS on Miller, not TR, but I enjoy my outfit for the very things you say don't exist in them; Fun, messing about, and when not confronted with by far superior numbers, or another organised outfit/platoon, we're also able to "get **** done" as it were.

And for the record, bursters, savvy skyguards and and organised AA(be it HAs with launchers or ESFs equipped for A2A) will maul them. Again, organised play is a pre-requisite for this.
So if you don't want to take part in it, that's frankly your loss.

I'll actually go so far to say(again) that if you want to be effective while lone wolfing, you're playing the wrong game. Because what you don't seem to realize is that there should(imo) be an incentive to actually form up and play in squads/platoons. If it had no benefit, why bother? And since PS2 is about the scale of the battle, I believe it's a justified when I say "join an outfit of go home".

I don't think he's playing the wrong game, really. You can be effective while lone-wolfing. You just have to set up realistic expectation to what you can achieve and chose your goals accordingly. Attack a bunch of Libs all by yourself? No chance in hell if they are even halfway competent. Sneak behind enemy lines, make sure your side has a good spawn point and can gather enough force to flank the enemy before they even realise what's happening? Been there, done that.

And you can always just go to any place with a big battle and play this game CoD style solo.

You can, but again you're then limited in what you can accomplish.
The point I tried to make is that sometimes the counter to <insert situation here> -is- organised play, as opposed to trying to take on the world by yourself.
Admirable as it is to try, sometimes it's just beyond the player in question.

And then to come to the forum, complaining at what I'll assume is his weak point as far as player skill in this game and how he lose to the best lib pilots while using his ESF....

Well sucks to be that guy. But is that justification to **** liberators? Or should there be room in the game mechanics to allow someone to, well as much as I hate to use the word, shine?
I'm quite sure that as much as mr Duff_Chimp complained about the few libs that beat him 1on1, there's a large number of other pilots whom he readily beats with his ESF.

... so should we then nerf or **** ESFs since they, a 1-man aircraft can best a 1-3 man liberator?


I think not.

It works the other way too. Sometimes being with a huge group can be limiting too and sometimes the counter to <insert another situation here> is "Go alone or with a team of at max 3 people." - in particular, for nearly everything requiring stealth.

The clever player recognises which situation requires which approach and either picks a strategy which works or leaves it to others who have the required tools (including manpower) to handle. The not-so-clever player .. tries to use the wrong tool for the situation (and fails most of the time) and/or whines about not being able to use a hammer to screw in a light bulb on the forums.

Exactly. If player A don't want to play in organised squads etc then he shouldn't come whining on the forum about a problem that is solved by doing just that.
If the game was altered to the whims of said player A, then player B, who spends his time with his outfit and plays in squads or platoons most of the time, wouldn't get to see any benefit of this team play, which, I might add, I feel is half the point of planetside 2. To allow teams to do things an aimless zerg can't.

and you really mean k33n is the same as keen?
as i said..

@flag ... everybody who is cheating should be on the list, aimbotters, wallhackers, teleporters...hell, some of them are high-br and well known..

Oh money, why did I try to read this thread ?

keen was unavailable, so i chose the closest legible alternative. regardless, "1337" has been around for much longer than CoD. Educate yourself.