[Guide] Having common sense while playing and developing a game ~ The fairy tale of humans using their heads

MURDER THE JERKFACE!!

in all seriousness tho i think a balance needs to be struck between looking at the lib, and looking at spawn shack placement. yes lib weapons are more than a bit powerfull when compared to manpower requirement. but it doesnt help that spawn shacks are easy to hit from the air practically wit a sign that says "FOR FREE POINTS AIM AT MY DOOR WIT SPLOSIVES!!".
i think a good thing to do is make lib's not instagib whole sections of inf, AND make spawn points hard to camp with vehicles. not just lib's ALL vehicles. ur not gonna end spawn camping (look at bio labs) but it at least makes it harder to do as inf can be killed by other inf pretty easily. (btw i dont like this TTK)

I completely agree with the OP but I'm afraid it's impossible for the dev team to follow his advice and "boldly try new and awesome things" for the PS2 maps. The problem is, such design decisions are known to be risky and I think I can safely assume that SOE management hates risky decisions. I think it's they who forces PS2 team to "play it safe" and avoid any innovative(i.e. risky) decisions. The original idea of making a spiritual sequel for the most epic MMOFPS ever made was buried under the SOE's management desires to increase profitability at all costs. For PS2 it means "no unorthodox stuff, be as easy on new players as possible, cater for the CoD masses".

EDIT: With that said, in the January patch plan there is a planned spawnroom remake to make it more adequate in terms of countering spawncamping and the addition of underground passageways from the spawnroom to the interior of the amp station and the tech plant bases so maybe there is still hope...

It is simply not. As long there are workarounds which you can use to passively counter them, its not an issue, but a source of fun. Whether you circumvent it with deployable shields, barricades, tunnels or map elements that makes it impossible for vehicles to be effectively used (such as urban scenarios), or other non-lethal elements, its your decision, but you have to understand that tanks kill. Its their role, its their reason for existence. Nerfing the reason for their existence into the ground, directly nerfs their reason to exists as well.

That being said ofc i wouldnt mind a resource system that actually puts emphasis on collecting resources. At the same time, when vehicles become less frequent on maps, i would love to see them buffed to a state where they wont die from 2 rockets or a single rocket pod salvo.
But ofc this is just my own opinion.

Did you guys ever encounter the spanrooms in an air tower being camped to oblivion?
that is bad base design, people should have the upper hand when coming directly out of spawnrooms and not be the ones having to look for enemies to start shooting

People should generally be able to shoot out of spawnrooms on infantry directly camping it, while tanks and other vehicles should not be able to see the exit right away and have no way to shoot at it even with splashdamage

I know the devs would like to avoid changing the map designs and so on, but this would be the best solution, i think we can all agree the spawn rooms that are 1 or 2 square meters big in the small outposts are extremely broken right now, as well as the spawn rooms in air towers

The way i see it having the spawn rooms in a biolab should be the way to go, having spawnrooms you can shoot OUT of, but vehicles can't shoot at the entrance with insane splash damage

In air towers, there should be spawn shields protecting the entrances to the top portal room and spawn shields protecting where people jump down. Yes, that means that the killing room for freshly spawned defenders is now the killing room for attackers if they sit there.

I love your post and all of your supportive imagery.

Bump. This will not fall on deaf ears.

+1 to OP, excellent post.

I've fallen through the map only once, climbing out of my vehicle when it was about the explode upside down. I mention this, because while I was plummeting to my death, I saw NO structures underground.

It seems a lot of game engines aren't capable of generating Terrain at greater then 90 Degree angles, i.e. it can't fold back over itself (Let alone producing stretched texturing), and usually Map Makers are forces to build giant "objects" that look like terrain (or just massive boulders) to create sheltered area's.

I wonder if this will produce problems with creating underground walkways. I mean, are they able to even "cut a hole" in the continuous terrain flooring, to allow entry to "object" based halls and tunnels?

At any rate, they need one or two dedicated map developers, because I concur in the belief it will relieve Spawn rooms being camped by Aircraft and what not. I won't just say fuqit anymore and Logout when I walk outside and die instantly to aircraft hellfire while trying to enjoy good infantry combat.

Hey, I still didn't get my royalties for that picture.

Map redesign takes time, and SOE needs to make an impact now. This is why the changes to ESF and liberators are being pushed through.

The Liberator platform and the ESF platforms did not need to be nerfed, and in some cases the reaver being one, needed to be buffed but there is no denying that the weapons platforms especially zephyr and rocketpods are problematic. if SOE would fix the burst damage potential on those platforms most of the problems would be solved, with the current aa buffs.

the problem is people look at whats killing them, and say this platform needs to be nerfed, without realizing that the issue is the weapons it uses, not the platform itself.

Until that changes, air will always be the dominant force on the field, because its an inherently low risk vehicle, with very high potential for rewards.

Choke points encourage strategy on a greater level. I don't understand this logic either, Aerensiniac.

Sometimes I wonder if developers assume "level design is for single player", and make MP, especially MMO's without much attention to detail.

Look, you have some shacks, control points, terminals and a wall. Have a nice day!

Thats their job - they are bombers and the counter to large groups of people clustered together, whether in tanks or vehicles.

The fact is many derps continue to spawn at a point well after it is lost, and continue to smash their faces against the enemies outside then come here to whine. Next thing you know, the game is going to hell because of the LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR.

I am sorry derps but complaining about getting spawn camped when the battle is over is dumb, plain old dumb.

Now we are going to have spawn 'invincibility' because that worked so well in BC2, amirite? All because of derps. Raging derps coming to the forums to whine about the bullets that killed them.

[quote="NinjaKirby, post: 1032284, member: 130593] I won't just say fuqit anymore and Logout when I walk outside and die instantly to aircraft hellfire while trying to enjoy good infantry combat.[/quote]

So move to a different spawn? This is what I never understand - the battle is over, but some people won't accept that and spawn repeatedly at the same spot.

Ever wonder why people camp spawns? Its because of derps.

The problem is that the battle is indeed over when a Lib sits above the spawn room.

/signed

If there are other people already alive not in the spawn room, there is plenty of possibility to bring them down.

I have for example killed multiple liberators with a spawn pod; I have also found pulling a burster MAX from one of the other infantry terminals (you know they are in multiple spots even in small bases, right?) chases them off quickly.

The problem is not libs, its derps who continue to spawn when the battle is clearly over, all points are capped, vehicles surround the spawn point and a liberator is overhead.

YET SOME PEOPLE CONTINUE TO SPAWN - those people are the derps and they are the biggest reason we have so many whiners asking for un-needed nerfs and core gameplay changes.

Just fix the damn spawns so the derps have a chance to get out without getting killed by vehicles. The focus of the whining will shift, at least.

+1 to the OP. SOE listen to the man!

Curious: Have libs ever been nerfed? From beta until now they only seem stronger.

Yes AA got a small buff and ESF got an armor decrease(silly/wouldn't minded a buff) and i don't fly.

But where has a LIB ever got nerfed, and there are 1000s of whines to nerf it.

btw, i agree the problem isn't the lib its the base designs and silly players. I do think libs have a little too much armor, but if it was decreased they would need a maneuverability increase ( i hate flying one, dam brick with wings).

When the enemy has camped you, you have lost. Move on. better yet, organize elsewhere and move in.

No amount of spawn fortress will cure camping. Campees are the root cause. No matter how elaborate the spawn fortress, it still must have an exit. When the enemy wins the battle, they will be at that exit. waiting.

As long as there are campees, there will be camping. I have no mercy for campees. They msut be beaten mercilessly, until they stop.