Nano-Weave Armor is bad for this game.

This my friends, is how you hit a guy.

That was like an open handed slap.

Needs more likes.

^ This. It's much more than a 20ms difference in TTK. Especially for weapons that need to fire in controlled bursts, their average time between bullets that hit is much greater.

Need to rework those TTKs as the refire time only applies between bullets, not between the trigger pull and the first bullet firing.

Especially when it supports my argument. As a matter of fact you even admitting that it does keep you alive longer only helps my cause. You even go as far as stating that it further increases the imbalance between high and low ROF weapons.

Nanoweave is a no-brainer suit upgrade that forces players who wish to actually remain competitive to not only use it but use weapons that are much more adept at defeating it. Why wouldn't you want 25% HP? You would. Sure you don't need to take it but by not doing so you're at a health disadvantage compared to a player who does use it.

Looks like I am (once again) correct on a balance issue in PS2.

thought I recognized the Buzzcut guy from our leader boards. He is currently ranked #1 on our server. I noted in the past 7 hours, he has made 470 kills and died 9 times.

he went from 12,614 kills to 13,084 kills with ~8d17hr total time played.

So I have to ask myself why someone with less than 200 deaths and over 13k kills would even worry about nanoweave. He says it is the best and he obviously nearly never dies in encounters. Why would someone with that much hand-eye with these games give a rip? is it the <200 deaths that is eating you? think you should have died less? Is it the guys that got away from you with a sliver of health? You have obviously beaten the server...

I don't mean this as a personal attack, because I am quite impressed with your accomplishments thus far, but i can't quite understand your crusade against nanoweave. It obviously hasn't stopped your destruction of everything in your path. Please explain the motivation.

Leaderboard doesn't show correct deaths.

It's because it's a lazy suit upgrade that gives you a flat HP increase which is good in all realistic PS2 combat situations. It is so good that I am not in any way shape or formed tempted to try or use anything else.

Back in beta I tried every cert and suit upgrade and came to the conclusion that NW was too good back then and now here we are at launch and NW is still too good and the clear choice. Options that give you either flat damage increases with no draw back or flat health increases with no draw back quickly become an obvious upgrade path and limit your customization and options.

NW either needs to be re-worked or removed because the only logical rework is to have it function similar to MAX kinetic armor which would make it still the pretty obvious choice to take given the nature of the game.

God would you people shut up about it? You can get 10% extra HP (50 HP) for 1 cert. A single cert will be gained in the first 3 minutes of playtime (against an enemy). Therefore it's accessible to anyone. That means the advantage difference between Level 1 NW and Level 5 NW (50 vs 125) is next to non-existent in the long run. The only real place you will find it to be any noticeable advantage is in splash damage from explosives. In that case Flak will do you worlds more in help.

To be honest, the number of times I survive with just 1 bar left (when I am using my NW cert) is, MAYBE, 1 time in every 200 lives. You get better odds with a dollar scratch off ticket or a slot machine, so just SHUT UP.

True, I completely forgot about that. The point still stands about the differences though, basically just shaving one rounds worth off ultimately.

EDIT: Oops, jumped to a conclusion! Crunching the numbers again, turns out the weapons are even more balanced without considering that first round into the TTK. Though again, in the perfect scenario.

And look, he chooses to completely disregard everything, see the bolded. I recall saying the low RoF weapons were already out of whack to begin with, NW need not apply. I also supplied balance tweaks to bring them nigh precisely in line.

Sorry chum, it requires actually reading to have an actual argument. Everyone can get nanoweave, but then people get by just fine with anything else. Not seeing the balance issue here.

And you said yourself: since these simple numbers are assuming a perfect scenario, nanoweave is more of a chance certification than anything. GG.

If you save up the certs to invest into it.

The way the cert system works is The first few ranks of abilities are cheap this allows new players and casual players to get bonuses. Whilst they may seem low it is easy to attain Rank 4 in the Nano-weave quickly. The final ranks of the cert unlocks are expensive. This seperates veteran/long time players with an additional bonus. This bonus is the same increase as each other ranks. Whether its 5% extra health or 3% reload speed on a tank.

so whilst you may think you have a 25% advantage if anyone else happens to take it chances are they are on 15% or 20% giving you only 5% extra. It is there so anyone get it. Some people like myself chose the Shield recharge rate.

I take the shield because i like the advantages it grants in big fire fights were that 1 extra bullet wont make any difference. I look out from cover get a few shots of until my shield is down, then duck back into cover. My shield recharges faster then the enemy so i can peak and start shooting again or even better be waiting looking out of cover for them to strafe out or look out straight into my sights.

Anyone can get any upgrade they want giving them an advantage. You choose based on your play style and you get a slight advantage to that style. The differences are negligible. Whilst 25% may seem like alot it will very rarely make a big difference maybe 1 or 2 more bullets depending on the gun.

/not signed since it separates the long time players from new players with a miniscule upgrade that will more often then not make no difference.

didn't really answer my questions, although I find it interesting that my K/D ratio on the boards looks incredibly accurate at about a 0.4. But I suppose it could be broken for others. He didn't dispute the ratios or comment on how he has beaten the game, yet continues to rail on this one item. I half wonder if there is some better suit item he has on his build and wants rookies to believe NW is the best so they spec it out. Perhaps he is a mad tank gunner and wanted everyone to skip the explosive armor??? Reverse psychology... he does have psycho in his name. lol Anyway, enjoyed your thread, hope the devs provide an answer, so we can move on and discuss more entertaining topics.

Basically if you shoot first you win. If they shoot first they win. No change here (assuming all bullets hit) Then we have the luck Spraying in close range comes down to luck and the ability to keep cross hairs on the target and hope you get enough hits before they do.

Nanoweave still makes hardly any difference even if you loot at it in an elitist way were every MS counts. It doesn't. If you have Nanoweave and i don't and i start shooting first i'm still going to win. (assuming all rounds hit) If you are out of cover long enough that it comes down to having Nanoweave or not you are going to die anyways.

This is coming from someone who doesnt even use it! Shield recharge is by far the best upgrade on the list!

=/ replied somehow apologies for double post

Take all vehicles out of the game except for ATVs and Sundies, but take the guns off of those.

Then this will be a good idea.

In the mean time. We should be worried about things like hackers, exploiters, and server lag.
Those are more game breaking than this is.

Oh, and Zerg Outfits.

For some reason, I can't edit my own posts...

New data:

Cycler 750 rpm - 143 damage = 12.5 RPS 480-560ms
Carv - 750 RPM - 143 damage = 12.5 RPS 480-560ms
SABR - 600 RPM - 167 damage = 10.0 RPS 500-600ms
TRV -- 845 RPM - 143 damage = 14.0 RPS 428-500ms

GaussR 600 RPM - 167 damage = 10.0 RPS 500-600ms
GR-22- 800 RPM - 143 damage = 13.0 RPS 450-525ms
SAW -- 500 RPM - 200 damage = 08.3 RPS 482-602ms
Reaper 500 RPM - 200 damage = 08.3 RPS 482-602ms

Saw -- 520 RPM - 200 damage = 461-577ms
Gauss- 635 RPM - 167 damage = 472-567ms

Removed the SAW/Reaper 167 numbers. Figured it was more of a slow, marginal decline, not a sudden drop. Using new suggested tweaks, as the original X45 and X50 figures would have made the weapons OP TTK wise. I'm using the Cycler's TTK as a benchmark.

Is it that you believe yerself to be in a vacuum, or rather that no one watches the thread and reads what you quote?

I'm Medic.
Most of my fights end up in frontal face offs with heavies, since i got the upgrade over 2 points i almost always win instead of dying with the heavy having less than 1/3 of his HP left.

Before, i lost by default.

It's the combination with my slow fire rate & high damage weapon which gives me the one extra bullet time to finish him off rather he does me. Having a weapon with different fire rate and damage may yield different results.

But for now, nothing can outperform this upgrade by any stretch which makes it default to me.

NW is benefitting you, no-one is denying that. What others are pointing out to Buzz is that there are different situations where the other certs can be more useful than NW would be.

Take me for example. Gunplay is no longer my thing - ageing reflexes and all that. So I play engy a lot. Now I pay so little attention to my infantry characters that I didn't even know there were such useful 1-cert benefits. I've added Flak armour to my engy and it made a HUGE difference to me surviving in big tech plant and biolab slug fests. Why? Because I spend most of my time tending to damaged maxes or dishing out ammo bags. I'm less often in direct line of fire to enemy assault rifles, but I see a LOT of incoming grenades. And I get the point that others have made - flak armour means 25% less total damage from explosives, while NW is only 12.5% more total health after allowing for shield not being boosted by NW. So in my situation, Flak makes more sense than NW.

On a LA or HA, more focussed on getting in the face of enemies, NW might make more sense. It's about play style and choice. NW (at any cert level) is in no way a game breaker.

Calling for the removal of NW is plain ludicrous. I wonder if Buzz's kid brother has hacked his big brother's station account?